[00:00:02.680] - Chris
Welcome back to another episode of the MRM podcast. I'm Chris
[00:00:06.370] - Brandon
and I'm Brandon join us as we discuss business, life and legacy.
[00:00:11.380] - Chris
It's business.
[00:00:13.930] - Brandon
Yo yo.
[00:00:15.020] - Chris
Hello.
[00:00:15.790] - Brandon
How are you doing, brother?
[00:00:17.380] - Chris
It's funny how we open these things because you and I never talk to each other that way. But it's like it's kind of like the situation calls for like, how do you open a podcast?
[00:00:24.050] - Brandon
Something right, like you do something formal.
[00:00:25.960] - Chris
It's that uncomfortable thing of like what's the first thing you're going to say. Right.
[00:00:29.260] - Brandon
And yo yo seemed
[00:00:31.640] - Chris
OK haha
[00:00:33.370] - Brandon
completely out of characteristically normal.
[00:00:36.760] - Chris
We're both dads.
[00:00:40.050] - Brandon
alright, Shut up. OK, now that that's over, I have a topic for us. Have you ever noticed? Of course, I have lots of opportunities to point towards conversations with other people. It's really easy to identify this in other people.
[00:00:56.440] - Chris
Oh, we're talking about friends, things we observed in others.
[00:00:58.960] - Brandon
Oh, yeah. There's things. You ever been in a conversation with somebody or an interaction with somebody and you know in your know of knows that they're not telling the truth? And I don't mean in a way of I caught three fish... Really I actually only caught one. Like, I'm not talking about a bald faced lie. Right. Trying to convince me the colors red when the color is blue. I'm talking about that more...
[00:01:27.820] - Chris
it's like Posturing.
[00:01:28.690] - Brandon
It's posturing.
[00:01:29.650] - Chris
They're presenting themselves in a certain way. It's really not true to what's playing out behind the scenes. Yeah.
[00:01:37.360] - Brandon
yeah, it's What's real? So then here's the it's so easy for me to see this and I see it all the time. Right in my self-righteousness. I see this all the time. And then I see all the ways that when we're not telling the truth, when we're not living in the truth, we're not speaking from the truth, that it stops us from taking a really good coaching opportunity or taking in some information that really could have a profound impact on our lives, on our social circles, whatever.
[00:02:09.520] - Brandon
And then a big part of me realizes it's me. Like I do this all the time. I do it as an entrepreneur. I do it as a dad. I do it as a husband. I do it as a friend where there's lots of little moments where I'm not really telling myself the truth. Right. Here's an example for me right now. This is an easy one to tell because I can be transparent and I don't feel like it's too intimate.
[00:02:34.360] - Brandon
Physical fitness. i'm 45. I am well into the dad bod zone and I'm trying to fight that. And now the meal thing I got a grip on this year. In January, I buckled down, I woke up, I got on the scale. It scared the shit out of me and I decided, OK, this is the year. And I've actually stuck to being really diligent with my meals and how I'm eating. And it's had a really great impact.
[00:02:59.680] - Brandon
But there's really this component that's left out there hanging, which is my physical fitness. I need to marry it with some proactive physical fitness. And I can't tell you how many times I've had a conversation with someone and I've been really free about telling them, yeah, I'm eating. Well, you know, I've been really focused on some exercise and physical fitness, but it's not true. Like, I'm not really like and here's why it's important for me. Is that if I was actually, in truth, doing the thing that I know in concept would work that I know in theory is a good idea that I project.
[00:03:37.870] - Brandon
Right. Because I know it's the right thing to say. I would actually be reaping the benefit of a six pack or the benefit of a quicker two mile sprint, whatever. You know what I'm saying. There's a reality that even in our business, right, there's certain activities that I talk about and I kind of allude to the fact that we're doing on a consistent basis. But the truth of the matter is, I'm not. Right, if I was, I'd be reaping the benefit of it.
[00:04:03.430] - Brandon
I can't be alone. I can't be the only person that's doing this. Right.
[00:04:07.570] - Chris
I know, I mean, I think it's funny. I'm trying to think of a specific example because I think I do it so often in so many different ways. And it's it's a matter of I think we all we make our judgments about good enough. But then we have this other standard that we are trying to project. So in the moment we settle for good enough with our behavior. I think a lot of times, like our just our willpower isn't high enough, whatever.
[00:04:32.980] - Chris
And so we we go to whatever the mark is good enough for us to feel OK about ourself. But then we realize it's not quite as good as what we think others expect of us or how we want to be seen. Like we want to be seen as somebody who's really like
[00:04:49.570] - Brandon
we're out front.
[00:04:50.380] - Chris
Oh yeah. Yeah. We like we want to put on that discipline equals freedom shirt so people realize how serious we are about our life and our business.
[00:04:58.910] - Chris
Right. Blah blah blah
[00:04:59.970] - Brandon
Right. Right.
[00:05:01.080] - Chris
When in reality, we maybe don't have the energy for that or the drive for that or whatever, you know, whatever it is, we just haven't built up the discipline for that.
[00:05:10.200] - Brandon
Yeah, we're not executing at that level, period. Yeah, right. So then and I think that this was what I was wrestling with a little bit this morning is I'm thinking to myself how many times? And this where maybe it turns a little serious. Right. Because my example is kind of funny. But the reality of it is this is having a really profound impact on my ability to make strides towards other goals. So, like, think about this.
[00:05:33.900] - Brandon
How often are we telling ourselves we don't have time? We are working pretty hard on these things. Hey, we're making ground on this stuff. We're falling forward. Like all these sayings that I catch myself using, and I would say the majority of the time I do feel that way. But how many times in my compromising what I could be experiencing because I'm just not freaking being honest with myself. So it's like it's one thing even to take this and say, I'll be in a conversation with someone and we project a little bit.
[00:06:10.370] - Brandon
And quite honestly, guys, if you're owning a company, you run a company. Is there some version of faking it until you make it? Hell, yes. Let's not fool ourselves, right. If you're a small restoration company and you know you got the stuff, you know how you can go into a small commercial loss and execute. Are you often walking into that relationship in some way, shape or form, realizing a little bit that you're a duck?
[00:06:37.270] - Brandon
OK, on the surface, that duck looks as if he's half asleep. But if we dive just underneath the surface and we see their little webbed feet, those little guys are just kicking away. Right. And how often do we find ourselves in that position where we know we can figure it out, but we kind of got to fake it until we get the opportunity, right? OK, that's not what I'm talking about here. There's a difference between that and me telling myself that I'm legitimately giving everything I have to something when really at the end of the day, I'm not.
[00:07:07.460] - Brandon
And I think one of the places this is really I mean, it's of course, we get a face full of it when you're an entrepreneur. But I think the other place that shows up so much is when we're really getting sound advice or we're being exposed to a scenario that there's a really great lesson if we can just speak the truth to ourselves in that moment. I'm just thinking how often we are as business owners we put on this... And I don't think I'm crossing paths here with other topics, but I think I see this all the time, not just on myself, but with others that we're working with or maybe just people in the industry in general.
[00:07:45.710] - Brandon
I see this mantle that business owners put on and they kind of they strut around in this title of business owner. I founded. I co-founded. Right. But then they're not really doing anything to develop their leadership competency. They're not necessarily changing the expectations on themselves because they've now adopted a formal title that placed them in a whole new level of responsibility. Like the actions aren't necessarily marrying up with this new set of game rules or this new... Does that make sensea little bit?
[00:08:23.540] - Brandon
Like I often I'll have conversations with my kids, like often is like, hey, I hear you articulating that you want to do X, Y, Z. But I have to be honest with you and say it does not appear as if your actions are aligning with X, Y, Z plan. And the reason that comes up and often what's followed is... How often are you really telling yourself the truth? Son, daughter, friend, brother, whatever.
[00:08:48.110] - Brandon
Like if we're really dealing in the truth, our actions would start to change because we would be confident enough maybe or we'd be honest enough to say what I'm doing right now actually won't allow me to hit that goal. And maybe that's where I'm going with this. Is like, how many times are we working with operators who hire us because they say things like, I want to be able to delegate more efficiently. I don't want to work eighty hours a week.
[00:09:15.080] - Brandon
I don't want to be the choke point in my business. I want to be able to hand off responsibilities like all these things. Right, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we go, awesome. There's a marriage made in heaven because that's exactly what we try to help people do. But then the reality sets in and we see some friction between change and actions that will actually create this different outcome they want. And for some reason, we see a lot of times where these business owners and business operators, they're not saying the truth.
[00:09:47.030] - Brandon
Right? We're going to have someone on our show soon. We just recently got her locked in. That's going to tear up I think this idea of I don't have time. Right. Which is like I use it too often. Sure. You. Right. Our clients. She's going to blow that crap up when we find out exactly what she was capable of doing with her twenty four hour period, which will be really exciting. But again, this is what I'm talking about.
[00:10:12.230] - Brandon
Like, how often are we setting rules of engagements for ourselves? Are we... How often are we setting expectations for ourselves? But we're not being honest in the evaluation of it, the execution of it. If we're following through. We're not seeing the truth, right?
[00:10:29.090] - Chris
Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. I always this was one of my big kind of pitches when I was doing executive coaching. I would say, look, you are ideally, hopefully, mentoring, developing and holding your team accountable. Who as the owner is doing that for you? Well, and so a lot of people hire coaches for that right to help. And great coaches will really push on the truth that you're presenting. Right.
[00:10:58.140] - Chris
To really find out what's the real what's really going on here. Right. So a great coach will do that, but we can do that same thing for ourselves. And I think that's what you're saying is. Like ,how often are we reflecting on is my yes, really yes? Like or have I gotten a little bit lackadaisical about following through on what I'm saying? Because as the owner and I think this is the thing that all any of us could fall into.
[00:11:24.640] - Chris
And I think we're just again, we're lying if we say we don't. Is that, we can get into this privileged position where nobody can question our behavior. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think some of the best leaders that you and I've been really privileged to either work with or under or observe, like they intentionally place themselves under the authority of others or intentionally submit themselves to other people's input.
[00:11:51.490] - Brandon
There you go.
[00:11:52.150] - Chris
Right. and I think that helps them maintain a good grasp on.
[00:11:58.870] - Chris
OK, I have my truth. These stories that develop in my head, but often it's pretty skewed. you Know, I can really start to... My ego can really start to take over. Yeah. Because I am for those of us who run companies and that can be even as the general manager, you know, somebody that only reports to the owner depending on the relationship with the owner and all. You can get into that same where you're kind of untouchable.
[00:12:25.780] - Chris
No one's questioning you. No one's poking at your decisions. No one's poking it at the things that you're saying and doing. That's a dangerous position for us to be in.
[00:12:35.830] - Brandon
Yeah, what do they call that when you when you basically are in an echo chamber? Yeah, right. Like the only feedback you're getting is your own. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a scary place to to be in. And I think the reality of it is, is that ...You and I talk about this a lot man. Like we're kind of in a lot of ways currently in our state of life, a little hyper focused on this awareness idea, the whole concept of just being more present in the moment in terms of what things are influencing my decision? What things are influencing my emotional response to this interaction? All those things.
[00:13:08.680] - Brandon
Right. Which I think is brilliant. I think the more that people can do to spend time in that space, they'll only get benefits from it. I really have not experienced a time where I've looked at it and said that was either a waste of energy or I ended up net loss somehow.
[00:13:23.320] - Chris
Yeah, the more I become aware of my behavior and my self-deception. Yeah. The more I can in the moment start to choose. Yeah. A different response. Yeah. That's and there's nothing fancy or sophisticated or spiritual or woo woo about that. It's just like the more I reflect on OK, why did I do this? What was in my head at that moment? And what's going on? I'm feeling really pissed off right now. What's that coming from?
[00:13:51.850] - Chris
Yeah. And more I just start to look at that. The more I can start to realize when I'm just really having an emotional ego reaction, you know, like, OK, well, that's how I want to operate. Yeah. You know, take a deep breath and engage a little bit differently.
[00:14:06.690] - Brandon
Well, and I think the theme in that or kind of like the underlying current is this understanding that it's not necessarily malicious intent. Yeah, like we're not, like, consciously trying to dupe ourselves or dupe someone else. Most of the time it's just this you get caught up in the moment. Right. And it just kind of happens. And I think I've thought about that with myself in terms of performance. I think about how many times I've been saying the same excuse or I've been having the same coined response for certain types of questions for so long that you're really not even thinking about the answer you're giving and or if you have the time, energy or power to actually change it.
[00:14:46.620] - Brandon
So, like, one of the things I think you and I have noticed a lot is when we started working with companies and people, you have to do these little things to get them to kind of shake up their immediate response, their knee jerk reaction to things. Because in that you give them the opportunity to almost hit reset to the type of answer they give so that maybe they can deploy a different one. And I was just thinking about I don't know if we've talked about this before, but we've we've been doing some time exercises with people and and we just everyone's too busy.
[00:15:19.320] - Brandon
No one has enough time. I know we're going to talk on this again soon, but it's a great example of... When we threw something into the process that forced someone to kind of reevaluate what they were telling themselves. By, Instead of just operating out of the knee jerk reaction. We said, well, OK, all right, let's say that answer is true. Well, let's just do an exercise, though, to actually gather some information and see if the information tells us the same thing.
[00:15:48.520] - Brandon
Inevitably, what we see when people do this exercise, there's actually more opportunities in the day to control what they're doing with their time. Well, I would say that's a great example, though, of how often someone's operating in that space, and I'm doing it right now.
[00:16:02.430] - Chris
Well, here's here's another side of that. And it brings up something that for me has been a little bit life changing actually. I read a book called Leadership and Self-deception. About the first time, maybe 12 years ago. And then I've read it every two or three years it seems like I'll pick it up and read it again. But on that calendar thing, one of the other things we talked about with the client was how important it is...
[00:16:27.420] - Chris
And, you know, you and I have just observed this over time, how important it is to have honesty with yourself, even with your scheduling of your day. Because we like we work with people to develop time blocks. It's a really effective personal management strategy. Right? It's working right now. I'm going to work on estimates. Later I'm going to I'm going to work with posting job ads. And then we go from three to five I'm going to do X.
[00:16:52.020] - Chris
It's a really great way to manage yourself. But what can often happen is we say, OK, on Mondays from three to five, I'm going to go out and do sales calls because that's a function I need to make sure I spend some time on. And we put it on there, but there's a part of us that realizes the chances of me actually doing two hours of sales calls during that time is almost nil, because I know I'm going to have this thing, this thing, this thing on Monday, but I feel like I'm supposed to.
[00:17:20.360] - Chris
And so I put it on my calendar. My team maybe sees that calendar. Oh, Chris has some time blocked out for sales. OK, he's checked that box. But in reality, Monday after Monday after Monday, I get to three thirty and I'm taking a call from a vendor. And then after that I'm like, I really need to get out. Yeah. And then I see an email popped into my inbox. And so I was never actually, I am the master of my calendar, but I was never really intentional.
[00:17:50.330] - Chris
I was never really committed...
[00:17:52.550] - Brandon
committed
[00:17:53.060] - Chris
to that three to five block for making sales calls. Right. And what leadership and self deception taught... It's great it's a fable. It has kinda a very unsexy name, but it's actually a really wonderful fable. Yeah. It's like Patrick Lencioni stuff, anyways. What they would say is that every time we do that in a little or big way where I know there's this thing I ought to do or I said I was going to do or I intended to do, and then we don't...We're betraying ourselves.
[00:18:23.600] - Chris
And what we're doing is we're actually diminishing the amount of trust we have in ourselves to do what we say we're going to do. Yeah, we think less and less and less of ourselves in our capacity to do what needs to be done because we betrayed ourselves so many times. We essentially told ourselves, I said I was going to do this, but I couldn't get around to it. And we start to lose a little faith in ourselves, and I think that's why some of us we've we've observed people are very high performers, just start to fall down. we are like what in the world happened?
[00:18:58.490] - Chris
Well, I think we let those little self betrayals can lead to us really getting off course, you know what I mean?
[00:19:04.540] - Brandon
I think you're right on the money. And I don't want to be overly dramatic about this, my friend, but this is how I really feel about this.
[00:19:11.020] - Chris
Are you saying I'm being dramatic?
[00:19:12.350] - Brandon
No, no, not yet. The thing that stands out to me in this topic is that I think you can always run a risk of oversimplifying very hard things about life. Right. Like don't hear me wrong. I understand that every single person out there is in some different status in terms of home, business, personal, professional, this thing, that thing, the current political environment, whatever. There's a billion things that are affecting our realities.
[00:19:43.180] - Brandon
So life is not so simple. Right. But I think there's a reality, Chris, that when I look out on the horizon and I identify people that I admire, respect, or people that are movers. People that are influencers. People who are having successes. People that are having repeated successes. I can almost guarantee you that if you dove down underneath the surface, you're going to identify someone that more times than not and or someone that at least is falling forward with this is doing a better job of living out and speaking the truth to themselves.
[00:20:21.940] - Brandon
So your Monday thing like that you're talking about, dude, I freaking hate you for using that example, because mine right now for weeks has been I have a content block and out of the last five weeks, I think I've done it once and it's the same thing.
[00:20:39.430] - Chris
And you feel it right.
[00:20:40.690] - Brandon
I feel it
[00:20:40.900] - Chris
you feel it in your guts. It's kind of just tugging at your sleeve constantly that I'm failing myself, I'm betraying myself. I'm saying one thing by placing this on my calendar and yet I'm doing another.
[00:20:51.430] - Brandon
But I'm not doing it. Andy Frisella. Andy Frisella's the real AF podcast for those of you like a real shot in the arm of drill sergeant, he literally just did a ten minute show on Kill the Monster. Right.
[00:21:04.660] - Brandon
And the entire show ten minutes is him just going off on the fact that when you have something in front of you and you keep putting it off, not only are you not getting the thing done that you wanted to get done, it's literally destroying your self-confidence. It's giving you anxiety. It's giving you stress. Now, he oversimplifies sometimes, but he's basically saying just get the f ing part done that you said you were going to do, right?
[00:21:32.020] - Brandon
Yeah. And I think this is kind of what you're talking about here. Is that how many times that when we're living out this deception of we've checked the box by putting this thing on our calendar, we don't live it out? It just accumulates on our shoulder of yet something else we were supposed to do, try to do, get accomplished, that's not done. All of that shit is working against you. We would just be better off saying, you know what?
[00:21:57.670] - Brandon
On Mondays, I'm so slow to pull my head out and actually start tackling the week. I'm just not going to do anything until noon. OK, like, do we do we think that that's the best practice? No, but you would probably get more return in your soul of just being honest and you doing something with that time that you can be honest about then pulling the freakin facade of, oh, look at my calendar... I'm doing X, Y, Z every Monday. When you know damn well you're not. Like I just think about that with with in general how many times I'm telling myself I've been working on that for a while.
[00:22:36.370] - Brandon
Yeah. No you haven't. No, you have it. Right, right. Because if you had you would have already accomplished something with it. And and so now instead of actually accomplishing something with it or giving it no energy, because I've decided intentionally, I'm just not going to screw with that. I've got this thing that's dragging me down all the time that I keep alluding to people that I'm getting accomplished when I'm really not. And when I say people, I mean me too. Myself.
[00:23:04.270] - Chris
Yeah, we have these stories we tell about ourselves to ourselves. You know, I'm I'm this kind of husband, I'm a provider for my family, I'm whatever I'm I'm a great dad. All of we have all these stories. I'm a great business person. I'm a good sales person. I'm whatever. And the reality is there's always there's always a gap between what the story we're telling ourselves and what others are experiencing us has actually being. But in this all of this stuff applies to our home.
[00:23:37.480] - Chris
Yeah, our marriage
[00:23:39.400] - Brandon
totally does.
[00:23:40.990] - Chris
Our relationship with our kids. Like I tell myself a story of I want to be a good dad, I want to be connected to my kids emotionally. I want them to feel safe with me and be able to talk to me about anything, all this stuff. But does my behavior often not align with that? You bet. I mean, it's sad, but but the reality is a lot of times my actual behavior when I come home from from working all day and talking with people is not reflective of a dad that wants to be connected with his kids
[00:24:15.630] - Brandon
super present.
[00:24:16.430] - Chris
be totally super present, super safe.
[00:24:18.750] - Chris
you can always talk to me about anything. Right. And in that in that book, Leadership and Self-deception. What they basically say is any time you have the instinct that there's something that you ought to do, you're capable of doing and ought to do, and you walk past that, you neglect it, you ignore that. It's an act of self-deception and it erodes our sense of self and our self confidence. And I think and when I when I read that, I'm like, wow, OK, there's something really powerful there in terms of marriage.
[00:25:01.490] - Chris
All right. So one of the simple examples in this book was the funny one that I can relate to. So my wife works part time, so she's home more. But we have we have shared household responsibilities. But if I'm honest, at times when my day gets hectic, I have a wacky morning, I get a call from a client on the East Coast and I'm engaged earlier in work that I usually am. I can have this internal dialog with myself when I'm supposed to put out the recycle bin and the garbage cans and kind of do some of the routine chores. Occasionally there's a part of me is like, I don't have time for that.
[00:25:42.170] - Chris
Knowing my wife is just going to have to pick up the slack. in hindsight, when I look at that small little moment where it's like I got to get to the office where I get to get on this conference call and I shove this thing off my plate. Hindsight, the reality is, is that I could have changed, I could have taken the extra three minutes before I hopped in the car and left, but I chose not to.I chose in the moment for my own convenience to inconvenience my wife and I'm communicating value right there.
[00:26:15.070] - Brandon
Oh, man, yeah
[00:26:16.480] - Chris
I'm communicating value right there. I've learned that the hard way in my marriage is that it's those little moments that actually speak volumes to our spouse and yet our ego inside of us, it's like, no, but I've got important clients and I provide. I'm the provider for my family and I don't have time. My wife has time, though. Yeah.
[00:26:37.990] - Brandon
I'm going to I'm going to. Here's another example. I'm not going to use any names. Someone walks in my house, makes them so the kitchen's clean. Nothing in the kitchen. Someone walks in the house to be unnamed, makes themselves some breakfast before they go to work at noon.
[00:26:53.500] - Chris
might Have your same last name
[00:26:54.460] - Brandon
may or may not. Throws the dishes in the sink, the dirty dishes all over from their robust breakfast cooking opportunity. And the text I get is I'll take care of it when I get home.
[00:27:07.540] - Brandon
So they're now going to proceed to be gone for the next eight to ten to twelve to twenty four hours, depending on if a friend asks if they want to go do something after work. But it's, you know, they were busy. They, you know, so anyway. I'm just feeling sorry for myself so that was why I used that example. But no, seriously, man, here's what strikes me about what you're saying is. I think all of us can kind of connect the dots a little bit here of the profound negative impact and really the delayed gratification and a lot of ways that we can experience as individuals when we continue to allow ourselves to really operate in this fake version, almost like a want version versus an execution version of ourselves.
[00:27:56.350] - Brandon
Right. And here's there's been a little piece triangle piece of blue foam at the bottom of our stairs, in front of our office. And it's been there, let's see, did I come? I came another day this week, early this week, I can't remember. So technically, I think I'm at day three that I've seen this piece of foam sitting at the base of the stairs. This is a wild man and being really transparent everybody.
[00:28:25.130]
Every time I've looked at it...This is how persuasive this can be. Every time I've looked at it, I say I really should be the person to pick that up. In fact, I coach people on don't ignore the little things, right? Like stop and pick it up. I'm on the third day. I have not had time in quotation marks to stop and pick that up. So then we have this episode, which is totally profound. Here's where I'm going with this.
[00:28:52.110] - Brandon
The cool thing is, is that obviously you guys, this just happens to all of us. You're not alone. None of us are alone experiencing this. And it can have super negative effects and it can delay opportunities. But you know what's really powerful about what you talked about in this triangle piece of foam. How many opportunities do we have each day to do something that really is such a little battle that when it's won, will compound, will add up, will begin to tell ourselves the truth of when you say something to yourself, it believes you?
[00:29:30.510] - Chris
Yeah, right.
[00:29:32.010] - Chris
Exactly. What I think it is is us getting closer to actually executing on the vision we have for ourselves. It's it's it's not accepting the dumbed down, discounted corners cutting version. It's just moving closer and closer to this is this is what I know I'm capable of. This is what I know I ought to do based on the resources I have, the luck that I've been given, all of that stuff. I think it's just calling us to what we already know we ought to be, you know.
[00:30:05.700] - Chris
Yeah, but it's like I, this thing I don't think we talk enough about this stuff. We talk a lot about integrity. And I find it to me, it's a real pet peeve now when people start talking about integrity. I'm like hold on, alright, if you're going to throw out a word like you have integrity or your company has integrity, let's.... You are integrity from moment to moment. Yeah, yeah. You are either in integrity or disintegrating at every single word you say, every single behavior you produce.
[00:30:39.920] - Chris
Yeah. You're either in integrity or you're in dis-integrity. And we throw around that too much. People love to wear the label of I have integrity it's important to me. Yeah. Because what integrity is, and I think it really is, everything we're talking about here is all in. What is integrity? What does it mean for me to be a person of integrity? So last night I was the last one here at the office. And so our office set up.
[00:31:04.300] - Chris
We're in a historic building. And so we've got a couple of suites of three or four suites upstairs and and we have a shared public restroom. And there's a fan that's integrate with the light switch. And so I'm the last one there and I realized it. I like connected to it. OK, everybody else quiet here. Everybody's gone. And then I notice the fan running in the bathroom. And it's honestly, it's like 10 steps, it's ten steps, but no one would ever know if I left the light on and the fan on all night in the office building.
[00:31:37.600] - Chris
And frankly, I don't have to care about it. It's just included in my lease, you know, technically. Right. And so I could just leave it on and just keep... I was turning after I locked the office door and I was turning to walk away and I noticed the fan and I'm like. I had this moment of am I going to keep going and just leave it on all night or am I going to turn around and turn the fan off?
[00:32:02.960] - Chris
And I'll honestly say I actually said to myself, I don't want to be the kind of person that walks away and leaves it on because I can't. And this is needlessly adding to the landlord's power bill. And then I also even just before I said this, I was thinking, you know, and even though it didn't occur to me in the moment, I wouldn't want an employee to do that. Right. It's the decision I'd want them to make.
[00:32:33.080] - Chris
Just turn around and turn the freakin light off. You know, let's not waste money. Let's not be wasteful people. And I don't say that... Anyway. It was just a random thing, I noticed it and I made that choice. It was the luck of my character in the moment. I was having a good day. It's possible I would have just walked away. So this is not any kind of...
[00:32:56.580] - Brandon
Holier than though
[00:32:57.270] - Chris
no, no, no, not at all.
[00:32:59.010] - Chris
Because the point is, I've made the other call so many times, and that's an example of so many times like when I'm at home with my my family. A similar example is walking through the kitchen, past the kitchen sink full of dishes, knowing that my wife appreciates having a tidy kitchen. And me just walking past it anyway. Yeah. When I'm fully capable of stopping, taking five minutes and emptying the sink, it's the same kind of thing.
[00:33:28.680] - Chris
And we can think of a multitude of applications in our day to day work life.
[00:33:33.750] - Chris
uh multiple.
[00:33:34.620] - Brandon
Dude, the first one that slaps me in the face, as you're talking about this is just this idea of we all talk about we want to develop a better culture. We have a family work environment. We you know, we want our staff to know how valuable they are. How many times do you walk through your shop and you and you kind of get that tug in the back of your mind, I should stop and talk to Joe for a minute.
[00:33:56.550] - Brandon
I should just let's it's Monday. I'm going to find out how the weekend when I know that he might kind of go on about this thing and his wife and the stuff, you know, whatever. Right. So you don't.
[00:34:07.590] - Chris
Yeah, everybody just had a Joe come to their mind.
[00:34:10.060] - Brandon
Exactly. But then you don't do it and the lost opportunity there was for that two or three minutes. And again, I think what's beautiful about this topic and kind of scary all in the same time, all at the same time is the reality of it is I think this one little variable is both so easy to make positive ground on, yet has the most powerful, positive and negative effect on our ability to pursue new goals, new initiatives, new levels of success.
[00:34:48.120] - Brandon
Become more of that person that honestly you look in the mirror and the reason that you're frustrated is because you know what you want. You know what you could be doing. But you just keep keep not getting it .Right. You keep just falling a hair short of it. But really, how much of it could begin to change if we just did. If we just stopped, took the five minutes to do the dishes. Stopped, took one minute to pick up the triangular piece of foam that's sitting at the base of our stairs right now. Took the three minutes to stop and talk to our Joe.
[00:35:26.310] - Brandon
Yeah, like that's the changer, right?
[00:35:29.160] - Chris
Yeah. I mean, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on. Right. Take take the ten minutes to look at this important KPI, you know, spreadsheet that you're supposed to be tracking and staying on top of your AR, or whatever area of your business right. it's those disciplines that we all say we do, but our actual discipline in the matter oftentimes looks different behind the scenes. So we can we can point at it on our calendar.
[00:35:56.190] - Chris
We can point out, hey, that documents open on my screen. Look, I checked that box, but it's that it's that small distance between what we said or what we kind of presented and what really was. I have...You know sometimes I get nervous when we start talking about this. And you made a comment we're going to deep here, or whatever, because I have I've had clients that felt like that. It's just like navel gazing. There's there's no profit in me spending a whole bunch of time looking at what happened in the past.
[00:36:27.270] - Chris
And and I'm like, well, no, you're kind of missing the point. I think the point is, is to look at what we're doing and why. Because in the moment, most of our our life, we've just been doing things kind of automatic, just kind of shooting from the hip and not really thinking about this stuff. And by thinking about it, we can choose to behave a little bit differently. Yeah. You know, and then the other thing I guess people say is, well, gosh, you know.
[00:36:53.000] - Chris
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And yeah, I got my flaws, but, you know, we got 50 people here to count on me for a living and you knoe, we got 20 rigs in our fleet and my wife's happy and so it's working OK. And I'm exaggerating,but we do encounter that kind of thing where it's like it's good enough. And I think what you and I have started to find is the more we press into that, like our effectiveness or productivity, our growth accelerates.
[00:37:29.640] - Brandon
Oh, I think it does. You know, I think the other thing that strikes me about that is that not only do those things happen exactly what you're talking about, it's like, dude, self confidence goes up. Your belief in yourself and what you could achieve grows. Like all of a sudden the expectation the bar keeps moving because you're like, oh, I did that. But you know what the other thing that I feel like I come closer to landing on what I spend more time in this space is this idea of my version of success gets more honest.
[00:38:01.160] - Brandon
Yeah. Right. So it's like for the first time. Well dude, the whole premise behind us doing what we're doing. Yeah. Really started as part of that journey of us just spending more and more time being honest about wants, dislikes, achievements, lack of discipline, discipline. And what we what we were identifying individually is that what success looked like for us in terms of what we really wanted was not necessarily the same, that culture or community or existing relationships was telling us that success looked like.
[00:38:41.120] - Brandon
And so I think that that I think you just bring up a massive point is that OK, so what... We understand what what not telling ourselves the truth looks like. I think all of us can very easily look at the last twenty four hours and find a handful of examples. It's not hard. I think you look at that and you can easily see, OK, there's an opportunity, if we're honest, that we could make faster gains. We could actually start putting into place these things that we're well aware exist.
[00:39:11.390] - Brandon
Right. We're not in a world lacking information. You and I are not necessarily delivering rocket science most of the time when we're working with people. Right. So you see all these opportunities to actually move the bar. But here's I think the other piece to just remember is. You might just start reengineering a little bit of where you are putting your time and effort, because you may all of a sudden become crystal clear on the fact that the things that you have been prioritizing and searching and going after were not yours in the first place.
[00:39:43.330] - Brandon
They're not even the things that you really give a shit about. And I think there's so much power in that, too. And so, again, this is one of those topics where the impact, good and bad, is massive. But I really think the day to day way that you begin to tackle this is pretty damn simple.
[00:40:03.460] - Chris
Yeah. And I think you just start to feel better about yourself. Yeah. Like, I, I can't tell you how many really successful people I've met that when you when you get into a real personal conversation with them, they admit a lot of times they feel like a piece of shit. Because I think because of what we're talking about. They're aware of all the self betrayal, so they have an outward view, people think they see the nice cars, they see the growing business, they see that stuff.
[00:40:35.290] - Chris
But there's these little self betrayals like these these compromises that they know they've made or they're making that that's been a surprising thing to me. Yeah, because we have this image of people and we have our own images that we work so hard to protect. Yeah. Yeah. And the trade off with that. Yeah. Right. Is that we we actually don't think very highly of ourselves.
[00:40:58.780] - Brandon
Right. The foundation is fragile.
[00:41:00.730] - Chris
The foundation is fragile. And I think some people are even listening to this. It's hard to even talk about it. It really is like because we see ourselves as really strong, we're successful. Entrepreneurs were this, were that. But at the same time, we're also aware of just how fragile our marriages are. We were aware, like we feel, how fragile our ego is and what's happening really internally in a lot of people cover that with alcohol.
[00:41:27.340] - Chris
Really common.
[00:41:28.470] - Brandon
oh sure.
[00:41:28.470] - Chris
You know they cover that feeling. Just kind of detaching a little bit from that reality, just how complicated their head is and everything that they're carrying and hold on to. But yeah, it's it I'm just finding a lot of freedom in taking a look at that stuff, like the more honest with myself. The less of that stuff I've got in my head, yeah, I'm just in a more positive headspace when I'm more honest with myself because I trust myself more.
[00:41:53.650] - Chris
I have a lot more confidence. Yeah, yeah. When I say I'm going to do something, I, I do it as often as possible. Like I hold myself to that standard. Yeah.
[00:42:05.230] - Brandon
So let's connect the dots a little bit. I always like to... I mean we talk about this with employee engagement as leaders, just doing a good job of making sure that we we actually kind of draw the connection between points. And so let's let's think about this tactically. What what are some of the things that maybe you've been doing or that I've been doing or that our our listeners can literally begin to do tomorrow, these little tiny little tiny battles, these little things that they can do to gain wins.
[00:42:36.040] - Brandon
And really then the petition would be to pay attention, pay attention as you're doing these things and begin to monitor if you're picking up on any subtle changes in terms of confidence, reliability. Just this is totally wow wow, but soul centredness, just like this idea of I just feel a little bit more grounded, a little bit more confident .Because I think I think people would be shocked how quickly they note a measurable difference just by doing some small, tiny things on a more consistent basis.
[00:43:11.290] - Brandon
Right.
[00:43:12.010] - Chris
Yeah. Well, let me offer a big thing. That's scary, though, first.
[00:43:14.890] - Brandon
Oh, boy.
[00:43:17.500] - Chris
I'm going to tell a story too. One of the most profound moments in my life. It was really transformative for me was back in my early twenties. My wife and I were living in a large six bedroom, three bath house with two other married couples. We were all youngsters going to college in different directions. I was starting a business, etc. and we would have these shared meals together and it was really great. I wish I could almost recreate it sometimes.
[00:43:46.090] - Brandon
I know there's so many people listening right now going, what are you?
[00:43:49.760] - Chris
who are we listening to?
[00:43:50.910] - Brandon
To include me.
[00:43:52.010] - Chris
That's so funny. There was no white robes. This wasn't like a cult. This is just three college aged couples minding their own business, having dinner together. I understand the picture I'm painting. But anyway, so we get done with dinner one night and one of the other dudes says, hey, Chris, you got a second.
[00:44:12.910] - Chris
Everybody else was kind of finishing dishes and stuff and said, hey, can we talk? And he said to me, he said, you know, I just wanted to let you know, as your friend like I feel like you've been really sarcastic lately with me, and I feel like for what it's worth, I feel like I've observed you being really sarcastic with your wife. And I feel like I've observed that really hurting her. And I just want to let you know, like it hurts my feelings, like when you make these comments or you use the sarcasm with me I just I don't like the way it makes me feel when I'm around you.
[00:44:53.670] - Chris
Man, I was... That was a hard moment for me. I felt really embarrassed in the moment because all of a sudden I was so unaware of how it was affecting others. And I'm not...I think most people who know me would not describe me as a real aloof, unaware person at all. But but I think that was one of the situations that really changed me for the better in terms of that went a long way to transform my awareness. And just that one conversation, I'll never forget it, and I actually I'm still really good friends with this person.
[00:45:31.530] - Chris
I so valued it. Now in the moment, it was really unsettling. It really knocked me off my stool, you know what I mean? But, you know, after that, I went back to my wife and my apartment and I said, Honey, you know, my friend just said this. Have you been experience that? She broke down crying because she had. She'd been experiencing me the same way. And I was just unaware I was and at the time, I was starting a business and I think I was just in my own world.
[00:45:59.030] - Chris
And part of my stress response was I was being more abrasive and sarcastic. just more anger, kind of seeping out from all the stress and whatever, starting a company. And I'll just I'll never forget that it was one of those we all have kind of our top five moments that kind of changed us. They all look different, right? Yeah. And this was one of those simple moments where I was just so grateful, especially after the fact, my friend, because that's a hard conversation to have.
[00:46:28.670] - Chris
So here's where I'm going with this. Yeah. Since that experience, one of the things that I've tried to make a practice of and again, I get these instincts, every once in awhile. You know, I need to ask for some feedback. It's been a while. But I think one of the places that all of us can start right today, you and me both, I'm realizing now it's been probably a few months since I've done this is going to somebody in your sphere a peer a downline person that has authority and that you respect and you've given permission to be honest with you.
[00:47:02.210] - Chris
could be a spiritual mentor or something like that, but just somebody who regularly observes you. In your different elements and say to them, hey, listen, you know, we have this relationship, so whether it's a best friend, spouse or coworker or whatever it is, we have this relationship. But I know you observe me regularly from a certain distance. What do you feel like is one thing that I could work on that would help me be a better person, a better father, a better leader? And please be as specific and severe as you can, because the more specific you can be, like, the more helpful it is.
[00:47:41.970] - Chris
Yeah, and I would just covid any any feedback you can give. But you observe me regularly. I trust I trust your perspective. What is one way that you think would make the most difference in my leadership? My care for my kids? My whatever ... You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I think that has been probably the most powerful tool in my tool belt in terms of developing as a leader, because the things that people told me when I've asked that question and they know what I genuinely want the answer.
[00:48:15.540] - Chris
Have just been the most powerful learning moments for me.
[00:48:19.680] - Brandon
Yeah, when when followed through on, they created really substantial change.
[00:48:23.790] - Chris
Big time. And of course, some of the feedback scared me or made me feel defensive. And I haven't always handled it the best or leveraged it. But when I have, right, when I'm willing to hear the answer and really think on it, that's been the biggest source of change for me.
[00:48:40.890] - Brandon
I love that one. And I think the big thing that you that you're pointing out with that is, and we kind of alluded to it earlier, is there's a real challenge sometimes with just seeing this stuff, noticing it. We're often in this automation mode where we're just acting, responding, doing. We're not giving it a ton of thought. And so by establishing this formal opportunity, this maybe this formal boundary with a with a mentor, a coach, a friend, whatever. Where you're like, hey, from time to time, I'm going to need you to point out my blind spots.
[00:49:12.360] - Brandon
That's really powerful. And I and I think it's very similar to like some of the tactics we teach with like an after action review. It's this you'd probably be shocked by the more times that you do this quarterly check in or a monthly check in with a friend or a confidant that you actually get better than at doing your own little self evaluations. Looking for your own weaknesses, blind spots or really what we're talking about here is a disconnection between who I want to be and who I am currently.
[00:49:43.260] - Brandon
Right. And who I am currently. And I think that's a huge one. I think the other one that we've we've already kind of ping pong around a little bit is just this take action on the little prodding that you get in the back of your mind. Right. You're walking through the shop. Yeah.
[00:49:58.760] - Chris
Practice responding to that
[00:50:00.390] - Brandon
responding. Take action. Don't give it too much thought. Don't hang in that moment very long. When the when the thing hits you to go pick that thing up. Or you know what, grab your keys, walk out your office, get in the work truck and drive to the closest job site. Just get in the truck right now keep this podcast rolling and go head to the nearest job site and meet your team, do a quality control walk. You're not too busy.
[00:50:25.800] - Brandon
Go right now. Yeah, right. Like those little things.
[00:50:29.850] - Chris
And we're talking about and again, there's there's there's sounds like an impulsive kind of quality like to that, that we're just always going to this... But no, this isn't about being distracted. It's not taking every single opportunity that presents itself to do something good. What we're talking about is something I think all of us have felt, which is some people might call it their conscience. Some people, some people from religious background might call it the Holy Spirit or the force or the Stoics called it the logo's.
[00:51:01.530] - Chris
It's that it's that still small voice. Right? It's like you just have this inkling or it's not even a voice inside your head. It's just like I, I know I ought to do this. There's this thing here tugging at my sleeve that I know what to do. I can do. And I'm just faced with this choice of am I actually going to do it or am I going to keep walking on? You know
[00:51:22.760] - Brandon
another example. And this one, you know, honestly, man, it's like I'm saying this one out loud and I think that this one is like it's so good. Like I do... This has been the thing I've been trying to do more and more of is... Where this truth conversation comes out to, is that when we set an expectation or a goal for ourselves, it's almost like the Monday time blocking you're talking about. Let's let's just start with integrity. So, like, if we say an example, I want to introduce a completely new, fully integrated mitigation process.
[00:51:59.840] - Brandon
That is a lofty goal. That's fantastic. I know it will have a profound positive impact on your business. But where are we starting? Right. Like what what is the what's a part of that that you could commit to and be honest about? And get that win first. And maybe that means, you know, what I'm going to do starting next week is I'm just going to start formalizing our morning routine. don't don't tackle the whole war.
[00:52:26.570] - Brandon
Just be honest with yourself and say the war may not be winnable for me right now, but I know I can win a battle. And that battle is I'm going to establish a new AM routine with my team and I'm just going to do that like clockwork for a month and then evaluate yourself. Here's the beauty of that. A, you set the bar to a place that's challenging, yet realistic, and then you get the opportunity to experience a win.
[00:52:51.290] - Chris
you prove to yourself
[00:52:52.160] - Brandon
you've proved to yourself
[00:52:53.750] - Chris
that I've set an objective and I followed through and I've accomplished it.
[00:52:57.560] - Brandon
And doing that, we always say consistency compounds, but let's say you did that back to back 12, 14 initiatives in 2022. Yeah. That would be more powerful of an impact on you as an individual, your team as a whole on your business than it would to set some stupid unachievable goal that you continually tell yourself that you want to do this, you have the capacity to do this, and then Monday after Monday after Monday, you don't take initiative or steps to actually execute on that.
[00:53:29.180] - Brandon
Like, which one are you going to get more from? Yeah, right.
[00:53:31.870] - Chris
Right. Yeah. You just going to toss it or are you going to go into your, your team room and then toss it over your shoulder as you walk out. Hey guys, here's this great vision. We're going to switch this up. You guys are going to do this and that. Then you kind of walk out the door and thats the last time you think about it for...You know
[00:53:48.350] - Brandon
and then you're frustrated it didn't happen. and there's hostility and gnashing of teeth.
[00:53:54.740] - Chris
That's never been part of our ...
[00:53:56.300] - Brandon
Luckily I've never experienced that.haha No, I think those are good. And I think that that's the the idea here too is this is not rocket science. It's not super complicated. There's just little baby steps that we can take to become more in alignment between who we want to be and who we currently are. And just understanding that this is just, it's a war that's won one battle at a time. These are not huge wild swings and behaviors or attitudes.
[00:54:25.220] - Brandon
It's just let your yes be yes more often and your no be no more often.
[00:54:31.400] - Chris
Yeah, right. Let's take our integrity more seriously, because it's one thing to have the image of integrity and to be mostly there. And it's and it's another thing to take it really seriously. And and yet people feel the difference. Like our team. There were periods of time, as you and I've been building businesses where there was more dis-integrity than others and it was always reflected in the morale of the team. Yeah, they're buy-in. The speed at which we could make change because they trusted us.
[00:55:04.410] - Chris
Yeah, it was when there was heavy integrity coming out of you and I and the rest of the leadership team. Yeah. Like there was momentum and power in the leadership team tending to the details, keeping the small promises like doing what we say we're going to do. Even when we thought nobody saw the results, nobody was looking at us. The other thing is a lot of times we do much of what we do as leaders is in secret or it's the view of it is limited.
[00:55:34.320] - Brandon
It's not super public
[00:55:35.420] - Chris
but the results and the effects on the business and everything, it totally trickles down and people feel it.
[00:55:42.200] - Brandon
Yeah, people feel it. They know it. Yeah. Yeah. All right, man, you're ready for summary? we kind of did a living summary, but here it is.
[00:55:51.050] - Chris
A little bit break it down.
[00:55:52.640] - Brandon
So main topic here, guys. Living in truth, right? Working to find more alignment between what we say we are right versus who we currently are in the moment. And the idea here is that we have an opportunity to really see some massive positive impacts and our business growth and ourselves modification to our leadership capacity, us really experiencing wins versus always having this goal out on the horizon that we just don't quite achieve.
[00:56:24.260] - Brandon
We're always kind of falling just shy of experiencing that win. And what we can do basically to build that muscle or build that experience, that trust with ourselves is that it's just the little things. It's it's take the little initiatives of when you see the thing, stop and take care of it. When you get the prodding to, you know, you should stop and have a conversation with one of your down lines. Just do it. And then the harder thing here.
[00:56:52.230] - Brandon
But but really powerful is identify someone in your sphere of influence. This is not a down line thing. This isn't really a peer thing. And a lot of times. But but just find someone that is safe that you can go to and say, hey, I need help identifying my blind spots. I want your input. I want you to be able to freely let me know when you see a disconnect between what I'm doing, how I'm acting, versus what I say I want to do and how I want to act.
[00:57:22.710] - Brandon
And I think if we do that on a consistent basis, little win after little win you're going to find that you have far more trust in yourself and that this kind of sustainable confidence begins to develop. Because more times than not, when you say you're going to do something, you actually do it. And it's profound that it's impact on you is so profound because all of a sudden you begin trusting yourself.
[00:57:48.510] - Chris
Yeah, that's the thing, right? Because we all I mean, listen, most of us have gotten really good at delivering more often than not for others. Yeah. What we're really talking about is what's happened internally, all the internal compromises that know it's possible. Very few if other people are specifically aware of they just see the byproduct in your character as it's what they feel when you're making all those compromises.
[00:58:14.700] - Brandon
Yeah, I love it. All right man
[00:58:16.530] - Chris
That's good.
[00:58:17.090] - Brandon
Bye
[00:58:19.770] - Brandon
all right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of the MRM podcast.
[00:58:24.360] - Chris
And if you got something out of it, share it with a friend. Hit subscribe.Hit follow. Leave us a five star review. Thanks a lot.