[00:00:00.670] - Brandon
I thought you were going to do it. I thought you were going to open us up. So I was like, intentional pause. So Chris can.... Christopher, how are you?
[00:00:08.410] - Chris
I'm good.
[00:00:09.010] - Brandon
Okay.
[00:00:09.320] - Chris
I'm good. I know. Anyway, little stutter step there to open things up.
[00:00:13.400] - Brandon
What are you doing, man?
[00:00:15.120] - Chris
Dude we just had a really good show. We've got a great show coming up for all of you. So Tom Maguire, so for some of you, that name will immediately register.
[00:00:23.210] - Brandon
yep
[00:00:23.210] - Chris
[ comment: https://largelossmastery.com ] Tom Maguire is the founder of Large Loss Mastery. https://largelossmastery.com
[00:00:27.190] - Chris
So now a whole bunch more of you just recognize who we have on the show today.
[00:00:31.380] - Brandon
Yeah, that one sticks out. Yeah.
[00:00:32.850] - Chris
[ comment: https://www.estimatingedge.com/the-edge/ ] So Large Loss I mean, it's been around, I think he said he started five years ago. And I certainly have observed in the industry just their prominence. Like, lots and lots and lots of people are talking about Large Loss Mastery, and I think benefiting from it. And then he also is the founder and CEO of The Edge Plus Software Estimating Software https://www.estimatingedge.com/the-edge/
[00:00:53.050] - Chris
Which we recently got exposed to. And, wow, we cover a lot of ground in the show.
[00:00:58.470] - Brandon
Yeah. It's not all tactical.
[00:01:00.090] - Chris
Yes, and I think one of the things I really love about talking to Tom is he's so forward looking.
[00:01:07.790] - Brandon
He really is
[00:01:07.790] - Chris
He is so ambitious and always wants to grow himself. But there's just an optimism and an enthusiasm about the industry, about where we're going. It's kind of infectious, man.
[00:01:19.570] - Brandon
It is, it was pretty refreshing. I think you even make a comment at some point. We kind of seem a bit inundated right now with all the problems and the issues
[00:01:27.930] - Chris
and the hard parts.
[00:01:30.020] - Brandon
Yeah, the hard parts. And, man, is that guy still in love? He is in love with this industry, and he's bringing the passion to their projects and what he's doing. And he's just a nice guy, man. He's just a good guy.
[00:01:41.500] - Chris
And, you know Tom, he's well known and well loved in the industry. And so he's been on a lot of different podcasts and YouTube clips. And I mean, he's one of those sought after guys. And I think we kind of covered some fresh territory. If you follow Tom and you really enjoy him like we do, I think you're still going to find some really neat Nuggets and little rabbit trails we take in this episode.
[00:02:01.410] - Brandon
Yes, I think so.
[00:02:02.290] - Chris
Yeah.
[00:02:02.550] - Chris
Enjoy.
[00:02:03.080] - Brandon
All right, let's do it.
[00:02:10.890] - Chris
Welcome back to the Head, Heart and Boots Podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:02:14.590] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead.
[00:02:21.870] - Chris
I don't know, What did you think?
[00:02:22.990] - Brandon
I don't know it was kind of serious.
[00:02:24.930] - Chris
Should we laugh?
[00:02:29.530] - Brandon
All right, man. Hey, we're really excited to have you on the show. We know that, man you are just jamming at full tilt right now with all the training events that you guys are planning and putting on. So thanks for taking the time to hang out with us Tom, and I'm looking forward to the conversation. I think it'll be fun.
[00:02:44.730] - Tom
Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah.
[00:02:46.890] - Chris
Where do you want to kick off?
[00:02:48.330] - Brandon
Okay, so here's the thing. When we first started kind of being introduced to you and talking to you a little bit about your backstory... For me, I get a kick out of the fact of where you started in terms of your career in this industry, because you're part of this group that essentially, in a lot of ways, has established what we do today, especially in that commercial large loss environment. And so I just wanted to give people a chance, if there's a few listening that don't know where it kind of started for you, how you got into this industry and just kind of give us some perspective on what this looked like back in the day, kind of as we began to develop what today is this disaster restoration industry?
[00:03:25.790] - Tom
Well, for me, it started... I graduated from high school in 1983, and in 1984, I started doing asbestos abatement in the summertime. And that's how I paid for College because it paid well. It was back in the 80s, and we're making $20 an hour.
[00:03:44.400] - Brandon
Wow.
[00:03:46.150] - Tom
So I'd make enough money to pay for school and take the rest of the year off. Now the work sucked. It wasn't fun at all, but we were young and we didn't know any different, and we were just loving the money. And that was really what got us by. I did actually for three years and every summer, and I always was very good at project management. And the guys that I was working with over that time period, they said, hey, there's this company down in Phoenix. You need to come and talk to them. And they are starting up their own remediation company and all this stuff. And they just so happen to also be part of a restoration company. So you had a choice between the remediation and the restoration. And I was like, I had no idea what the restoration side was all about, but I was really, always really good at project management. So I took the job with them. So I left school. I never ended up finishing College. I left my junior year, and it went right to hit the ground next to a new I was in Dallas, Texas, and working on a job there for remediation.
[00:04:50.030] - Tom
And then the remediation company wasn't doing so well. And I was like, okay, I just made the worst decision of my life here because I just left College and went with these guys. But then they came to me and said, "well, we have this restoration side of our business that we'd like to get into. "This was 1986, 85, 86 now. So I was like, what's this fire damage, water damage, restoration stuff? I didn't have a clue what they were talking about. And so again, then I ended up on a job in Dallas, Texas. Again, and this time with a Kim sponge in my hand. And it was a fire job, and it's this little factory, mom and pop factory. And I was scrubbing the walls with a Kim sponge and once again questioning my choices.
[00:05:36.010] - Brandon
What have I done?
[00:05:37.000] - Tom
Yeah. All right. So I was going to College for accounting, and now I'm like, I've got a Kim sponge in my hand. So that's kind of how I got into it. And then luckily, the company that I was with was like one of four companies that did work from coast to coast at that time. And one of very few companies were doing large loss and large commercial losses. And so we flew all over all over the world. We were not only all over the country, but we were in Singapore. We did some stuff in Kuwait. We've been in Costa Rica. There was just a lot of different places that we went early on because there wasn't anybody doing it. And so that's really how we all got started. For me, it was really kind of by accident. But again, I kind of fell in love with the industry for whatever reason. The catastrophe, the travel, the long hours, the terrible diets, all that stuff doesn't seem to bother me all that much because we were doing a lot of work in New York City. And one of the biggest projects where I cut my teeth was in Jacksonville, Florida, right after I started with the company.
[00:06:44.520] - Tom
And we were there for three months on a power plant. And the money was good. We were young and we didn't know any better, and we were having a lot of fun. We were lucky. We had condos on the beach in St. Augustine, and everything just seemed to click. And now there are some places that I've been to that I care not to go back to. But for the most part, I've loved every city that we've been into over the last 35 years. And we've been in places that people normally general public never gets to see because there was a disaster. And that's one of the exciting things. It's never the same. You can even have you go to the same facility three times and three different types of losses. So it's always changing and always different. I was never a suit and tie guy with ambitions for the corner office. This is how I go to work every day. This is my office now.
[00:07:43.270] - Brandon
I love it. I was just thinking to myself, okay, accounting degree to running around the world chasing storms and large cat events. It's like, wow, what a switch.
[00:07:53.690] - Brandon
Is there a part of you goes like, thank goodness I didn't stay on that track on the accounting side.
[00:07:58.880] - Chris
Oh, yeah.
[00:07:59.500] - Tom
There's been a couple of crossroads in my life that I've made decisions to go forward with what we're doing. And I always think back, what about would have happened if I would have stayed in that or this. The one thing that I've always done, though, no matter where I am, is I always put 110% of myself into it and sometimes a little bit too much. And so bringing large loss mastery to life. I work on it all the time. It's a seven day a week. It's a passion for me. I don't have a time clock on it. And so I love what I'm doing. There isn't a paycheck, so to speak.
[00:08:38.770] - Brandon
It's funny that you say that. I was thinking about something that a lot of business owners, I think, feel challenged by what their employee base or whatever. And it's just sometimes this lack of vision on the individual, like just that ability to kind of see. Okay, here's the situation right now in front of me. However, there's all this other opportunity. There's these things that I could see coming to fruition or coming together. If I stay here, if I continue to participate in my mind, of course, I'm making some jumps here, but it sounds like you're the kind of individual that carries with you some sense of adventure and vision, though, so that when you're in a current situation, you're kind of seeing what could be or what's next. Is that accurate?
[00:09:18.450] - Tom
I think we all have to be asking ourselves, am I doing enough? Can I do more? What else can I do? How can I improve myself so that I'm a better person, that I'm a better teacher, a better husband, a better boyfriend, whatever. All of those things. I think we always have to be challenging ourselves. And I think in our business, if we have passion in our business, I think our businesses are much more successful because when you passion, you can't learn that. You can't get that in a College degree. It has to come from within. It's one thing to open up a business, but it's another thing to really love doing what you're doing because it drives you. When you get that passion, you'll have more ideas, more things than people will look at and say, but man, how do you do that? How do you stay ahead of the competition? You stay ahead of the competition by not worrying about the competition, by just fixing yourself and making sure that you are doing everything that you can.
[00:10:17.970] - Chris
Can I ask you a question about that? I love that. Has there been seasons in your life where you felt like you were lacking passion or found yourself in a situation or a context that you weren't fired up? And how did you process through that?
[00:10:30.860] - Tom
Oh, yeah. There were some times where I was just like, and what am I doing later on in my career? It's like ten years and twelve years in. Okay, all right, what are we doing? And then you have that. So it's kind of like age. You turn 30, you have one set of trends in your thoughts, and you turn 40, you have another set, you turn 50, you have a whole another. And when you get to in your 40s and then in your 50s, it's like, okay, where are we at? So in the 40s, I was kind of all right, so I missed a couple of milestones that I set early on in life, which were unrealistic to begin with, but goals nonetheless. And so you're always recalibrating. When I started Large Loss Mastery five years ago, six years ago, almost now. And when I started that, it was purely just on what's next and purely just a passionate move about leaving something behind, about giving back to an industry that's given me so much and taken me around the world. And so now I get to teach a lot of the best practices that we set back in the 80s when nobody was we didn't have IRC or anybody back then.
[00:11:44.340] - Tom
Back then, IRCRC was where you got your carpet cleaning certificate and restoration was still down the road away. As far as training and all of that, we were making up the rules back into early 80s. All of that information now is what I plug into Large Loss Mastery. And that's what attendees get. They get everything. They get 110% from me and 110% of me. So they get everything that I ever learned or everything that I ever seen that worked or didn't work. And so we plug in all of those best practices that are now just part of the concrete of the industry.
[00:12:23.200] - Brandon
There is I want to touch base on that, probably defer it for just a couple of minutes. But there is something unique about the training that you're doing and just this real emphasis on live and interaction with the group. And of course, there's more to that. So we're going to get into that soon in terms of just kind of the nuts and bolts of what you do and why you do it the way that you do, because it's pretty epic. But before we go there, just before we leave the past here a little bit, can you think of kind of top of mind an example or a story where you guys were kind of making something up on the fly that eventually became something that you consistently deployed? I'm just thinking, man, the size and scope of jobs that you've been a part of, there's got to be some cool story in there somewhere.
[00:13:02.920] - Tom
Well, I'll give you one that I can think of. There were several, but after I started with Munchers and we were the only drying company in the industry to speak of, and we were trying for distribution of air, we were trying to find ways because we had a lot of flex tough in the early 80s, 83 was the first time that a desk and dehumidifier had ever been used on a job, on a drying job. And when I joined Munters in 94, was about the same time that we started to find, okay, we need a duct, some type of ducting. And lay Flat, we were working with a company that was making these long tubes for bags. So they're making plastic bags. And so the plastic material would be a tube and it would come in miles of it and then they would cut it and seal it. And now it's a plastic bag, six meal bag for like abatement work. Well, we were doing one of the factories and somewhere I can't even remember now, but we're doing one of the factories and we were looking at it and going, look at that, can we have one of these roles?
[00:14:21.530] - Tom
And we took one of the roles and it was a little bigger than what we needed. It might have actually been a little smaller, but we looked at it and then we looked at the supply on our desktop dehumidifier and we're looking at it going, okay. And then we looked at the Flex Duck and we said, can you make it this size? And they said, sure. And so that's where lay Flat get out of here for us came from.
[00:14:48.550] - Brandon
I'm just thinking how much of a staple that is like, what are the bare bones thing that everybody's ordering? And lay Flat, oh, my gosh. It's like a bedrock item that we use. So that literally came out of that. It was trash bags prefinished. That's awesome.
[00:15:05.000] - Tom
Very few people actually know that story. And it wasn't until you asked me that question, it was like I was like, because there are several of them. But lay Flat was probably the best one and that was early. I would say maybe let me go back a little further than that. I think it was around 94, 93, 94 somewhere.
[00:15:32.130] - Brandon
Gosh, that is amazing, man. Those old days, for sure. That's awesome.
[00:15:37.680] - Chris
Before we transition to some of the current day stuff. So we chatted about this just a little bit before the podcast. But I think let's talk emotional, spiritual, physical health. Our industry and you've been in it longer than either of us. Our industry is really known for. And really the greater home services construction field. Right. Is known for chaotic hours. And it's a stressful industry. It's difficult on families. It's not known for how we prize self care and taking care of ourselves. And I think for somebody who's been in the industry so long and traveled so much and experienced so many different cat events, how have you learned to care for yourself? Because by all appearances, a fit guy, you have tons of energy. You're continuing to build things late into your career. You've already been at this 30 some years. What is that journey looked like? Because you talk about back in the day, you were just running and gunning probably the 80s version of monster energy drinks and cigarettes and fast food. Right? How did you make that transition over time? And what compelled. That what is your journey looks like in terms of caring for yourself and emotional family, all that kind of stuff.
[00:16:46.720] - Tom
It's very important. And just on a side note, we didn't have Red Bull or anything back in the 80s. I don't know. It was all Big Gulps and stuff from seven levels. Yeah. But I think it's very important. And I tell people I was in the franchise business for a little while. I was doing a large loss for one of the franchise companies here for a couple of years before I broke out onto my own. And I was always used to with the people that were coming in. They were all shapes and sizes and all ages. And you see the ones that were late 50s and early 60s and they were getting ready to buy a franchise for a restoration company. And the one question I would have for them is, you know, this is a young man's game. You know, what is expected of you to succeed if you don't have the money to hire muscle, you are the muscle. And so you really have to make sure you're making the right decision at first. 2nd once you're in it, is it a passion, do you care about it to the point of where it's part of your life and it has to be it has to be a driving force in your life.
[00:17:56.280] - Tom
It has to be part because where you're going to spend half of your life, it's working. It has to be something good. So if the long hours and the Big Gulps and a Big Mac, because you're going to have those moments where that's all you have, if that's not what you want, then this isn't for you. And there are some people that it's not for, but for the people that are out there that they're passionate about this business, they love this business and they're in a good relationship. But it is tough. It is hard on relationships. I mean, I tell you that as a person who's been engaged twice. And so I was married to the road. And so for about ten years of my career, I was on the road for 260 days a year.
[00:18:39.620] - Brandon
Wow.
[00:18:40.320] - Tom
And for ten years. And so I had millions of Marriott points and Holiday Inn points and Delta points. I used to give away 250,000, 300,000 Delta miles for gifts for friends and family. But it cost me. It cost me relationships that travel and all of that. It is very difficult. It's very difficult. And I would be lying to you if I said what I'm doing now with large loss mastery where I work seven days a week, my girlfriend Donna would tell you that it's true. And my first love is the logo because it has to be that way and then everybody else is in there. We're all family, but it's first and foremost. But it is difficult. And keeping yourself in shape you have to be disciplined. One of my favorite videos that we plug into Large Lost Mastery is Navy Seal commencement speech, where he says, if you want to change the world, start by making your bed in the morning and it's discipline. And so if you're disciplined on making sure that you're paying attention to the people around you and not just the business, that you're not just following your passion, but you're also bringing everybody along with you so they feel like they're part of the ride, that's the most important thing is being able to be disciplined with it to where you're not running the streets with the boys at night, you're taking care of business, taking care of your body.
[00:20:04.330] - Tom
Get up early, get into a little gym. Every hotel now has at least something you can at least get on the treadmill. Or do you know there's a million ways that you can keep yourself if you don't keep your body in your mind? Because it all starts here. If it's not here, then the rest of it doesn't matter because it's not the systems that fail. It's when our heads aren't in the right place.
[00:20:30.110] - Brandon
The answer is interesting, Thomas. You kind of make the assumption like he's really going to dial in to how important it is to prioritize XYZ. But you didn't. And this is not a bad thing. It's an interesting perspective for you. The first piece, the priority for you is this business is the thing that you're creating, whether it be a restoration team or whether it be obviously what you're doing now with Large Loss Mastery. I appreciate that. I appreciate it because there are many of us sometimes I feel like I'm in this category, but not always where just because of our natural wiring, if we're not engaged in something that feels like we're lifting, creating a building, a mission, we aren't happy. And so I think we can oversimplify some of the things that we're talking about in terms of, well, everything is balanced. It's all about making sure that you prioritize all the facets of your life. And I think there's some I think we need to have understanding of the different facets of our life, the different things that influence us or that we hold important. But I think it's also okay for us to understand there's going to be certain people the way they are wired and the things that they're chasing that is never going to be second to anything else.
[00:21:42.850] - Brandon
And as long as we're diligent about communicating that and building relationships that can thrive in that kind of prioritization, you're going to be okay. Is that an okay summary of where you went with that?
[00:21:54.780] - Tom
Absolutely. And that's just from my perspective. From my perspective, you have to have people that are helping you row the boat. You have to have people that have your back. When you don't have your agame, you have to have that. You can't do anything by yourself and with large loss mastery. It's a little bit different because I'm at the tip of the spear because I don't have a book or anything explaining how to do it. We're buying a franchise or something. There's a whole support system. I am the support system. And so I have to surround myself with people who know more, who are better in certain areas, and then have my downtime with my girlfriend and where we can escape on little vacations or go down to our favorite restaurant or whatever it is. And so when you're in a situation where you're creating something that has never been done before, it's really a challenge because you have to not only challenge yourself and constantly ask yourself, what am I not seeing? I know what I know, but what am I not seeing here? What more can I do? What am I not doing enough of?
[00:23:11.720] - Tom
And what am I doing too much of? And when you're creating something that there isn't a blueprint for, that's challenging. But it's also really exciting because when it starts to click and you start to see it working, it's unbelievable the energy that you get out of that. And I've just been blessed to have been very fortunate to have worked with amazing people all through my life. And it wore off on me. And so now I'm trying to wear off on other people. Yeah.
[00:23:39.970] - Brandon
My gut says you've been doing that most of your career, man. I know that what little time we've spent with you, you wrap all your experience and a ton of humility. So I think that I'm glad you're on the mission that you're on right now, because I think a lot of people are getting a ton of benefit from your experience in the way that you carry yourself in that perspective. So that's awesome.
[00:24:01.290] - Chris
All right. Let's take a minute to recognize and thank our MIT Resto Mastery sponsor, Accelerate restoration software. And I'm fully aware, by the way, that when I say those last two words, restoration software that instantly creates heartburn for some of you out there. Right. Because we probably all fall into one of two camps when it comes to software. We've either cobbled together kind of a version of free website tools and spreadsheets just to make our business work, or we're in the camp where we've adopted one of these existing restoration platforms, one that has all the bells and whistles and supposedly does it all, but we can't get our team to consistently adopt it and input information to it.
[00:24:46.080] - Brandon
Yeah. And that's really where Accelerate has honed their focus. They've created a system that's simple, right? It's intuitive and it focuses on the most mission critical information, I. E. Guys, your team will actually use it.
[00:25:01.100] - Chris
Let's talk about sales. Right. After years of leading sales and marketing teams, the biggest trick is getting them to consistently update notes about their interactions with referral, partners and clients. And the essential piece there is, there's got to be a mobile app experience, and in our experience, the solutions that were previously out there were just too cumbersome and tricky to use.
[00:25:24.540] - Brandon
Yes, imagine, guys, how your business would change if your entire team was actually consistently using the system. Do yourself a favor, go check these guys out at XL Restorationsoftwood.com MRM. And check out the special offers they're providing to MRM. Listeners.
[00:25:44.370] - Chris
All right, let's talk about actionable Insights owners GMs. You can't be your business expert on all things estimating. You might have been three years ago when you're writing sheets in the field, but the industry is always changing and so are the tools. If you're the smartest person in the room when it comes to exact Matterport, how does that scale you're the bottleneck? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is where actual insights come in. They're a technical partner that can equip your team with the latest bleeding edge information and best practices, and then update them with webinars and training resources when the game inevitably changes again. For this reason, we recommend actual insights to all of our clients.
[00:26:24.550] - Brandon
Yeah, three of the kind of big things that stuck out to me when being introduced to AI and their team. First off, is this consistently updated training. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys are the experts. They're out front all the time. They're constantly learning new trade secrets and ensuring that your team's got access to those things. A 3700 plus page database of exact amount templates. I don't know what else to say here other than don't reinvent the wheel. It's already available. Download it, copy it, use it. Bam database of commonly missed items. I think this is huge. So many of us can change the numbers by just moving the needle a couple of points, and those commonly missed items can make all the difference in the world. So go check them out at Value Gitinsights.org FCG before we move on. Yeah.
[00:27:18.520] - Chris
You bring up disciplines as having been an important thing for you to develop over the years. What are some of the disciplines that are really important to you at this stage of your life?
[00:27:26.680] - Tom
At this stage of my life, the most important discipline for me is health. And once you go past 50, all bets are off. Things might have been fine last week, and then it's like right now at the doctor this week, and it was like, all right, so I hurt. Well, we don't know why you hurt, but I hurt now this hurts. Now that hurts. I think that's probably the number one thing is when you're in your 30s and 40s, make sure you're watching out for the 50s. Your knees, your shoulders, all those things, you're going to miss them when they don't work like they used to. It just did that's. Probably the biggest discipline now is health, and especially with my schedule this year. It's like, bang. I'm having to train like Rocky just to make sure I can get through the first half of the year. And that's the biggest thing is making sure you're healthy, because if you're not healthy, you're not any good to really anybody, including yourself, starting with yourself.
[00:28:32.120] - Brandon
And we just recorded an episode, and now I'm getting a little bit more courageous that I want to let it go out into the open world is kind of based on what you're saying. Chris and I just had this a bit of epiphany is a really neat word, but we just kind of came to this realization of how important some of the things that we've done to shift the focus onto our health in terms of it being kind of foundational for being able to build the company, be able to do serve people the way that we are. And I've been hesitant to let that show go out because it felt a little condemning and a little bit like we're trying to guilt people or condemn what they're doing. And that's not the point. It really is. Like, what you're hammering on is that's kind of the foundation of the system. Like you can't keep asking to produce when something doesn't have fuel, right, or it doesn't have functionality, equipment's not working.
[00:29:22.110] - Chris
Can we dig in? What does that mean to you? That fitness or taking care of yourself, practically speaking, how do you fit that in? I mean, you have a really intense schedule. Even though you're not operating in the field like you used to, you are very busy traveling all over and teaching and so forth. So what does it look like for you to be disciplined about your house?
[00:29:39.840] - Tom
Well, when I got about three years ago, I downsized, and so I had a house that required a lot of work. I landscaped it. It was awesome. An outdoor movie screens and pools and Tiki bars and all that kind of stuff. But I'm very passionate about that, too. So I was always working on it. So I decided I was going to sell and downsize. I downsized into I've got a condo now. It's right on the river, and it's really cool. And I can watch Rockets go out that window over there. Well, they don't actually go out that window. I can watch them launch over there at Kitty Space Center. But luckily there's a little gym down here, and there's lots of areas to walk and rent, walk and run and all that. And they've got a little gym downstairs. And it's actually one of the number one reasons why I chose here is because it's got a Marc machine. It's got a couple of treadmills, and it's got some weights and stuff. And when I'm working, I get up in the morning, I put on my gym clothes, and I work. And then when I get a break, I just go down to the gym and do my hour a day.
[00:30:46.370] - Tom
And it's a religion. If I don't do it, I'm actually upset with myself because I live in Cocoa Beach and in Cocoa Beach, it's very laid back. And you can get in a real laid back mode and drink too many beers around here at night. And then it's counterproductive. And so try to keep the beers for the weekend if I can.
[00:31:06.510] - Chris
Right.
[00:31:07.010] - Brandon
I can appreciate that.
[00:31:09.870] - Tom
Just eating it's just so important. The older you get, the more challenging it is, and the harder it is to keep weight off, the more discipline you have to really pull it off. And again, going back, if I could go back and tell myself some things in my 30s and 40s, I would slow it down a little bit, but I wouldn't change anything. That want to do anything.
[00:31:31.120] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:31:31.630] - Brandon
You wouldn't be where you're at if maybe you had listened to yourself right there's. That kind of dichotomy, if you will, of the two things it feels like. So are you guys cool if we switch into a little nuts and bolts here?
[00:31:43.320] - Chris
Yeah.
[00:31:43.870] - Brandon
So we've obviously seen you in the industry for quite some time. You said five, six years now, right. That Large Loss Mastery kind of first came to fruition and just loosely here's some of the things that we see. One is Super Interactive Live Primary, and I'm going to let you go into it, but you've done something really unique in the setting of the training. So just start there. Give us an overview of what Large Loss Mastery is and what's different about that training platform compared to what most of us have seen in other elements, I guess, on this more technical side of training.
[00:32:22.040] - Tom
Well, what I did with Large Loss Mastery was I was on a project up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, kind of where all of it was born. And I was working with a franchise in Oshcross, and he never put together a contract for a scope of work for a contract that big. And it wasn't that big. I think it was a $300,000 job, which was really big for him. And I was up there and I went up and put together the contract, the scope and the number. And I said, all right, we got to ask the adjuster for upfront money. If we're going to ask for 20, we always ask for money upfront. If you don't ask, you don't get. And so he was like, can we do that? And I was like, if you don't ask, you don't get. So walking them through all of that. And then the adjuster, who had been in the business for about 25 years, said he had never seen a time of materials contract with a budget number. I was just like, okay, well, really, I was like that's what this industry was born on was time of materials and a budget number.
[00:33:26.860] - Tom
And so I started to realize and he brought in a consultant to look at my stuff because he couldn't. To me, that was just boggled my mind because it wasn't that big of a job. It's a small factory, almost like the factory where I started back in the 80s with that Kim sponge. Almost exactly the same. I started to realize that the gap in the industry was growing. It was expanding between the consulting insurance and the insurance side and the end user and the restoration companies. And it wasn't necessarily a gap. The gap was really just because of inexperience and lack of knowledge about the basics, about the fundamentals, about the best practices of the industry. And no one was teaching that. And so what I did was I got together with Mickey Lee and Brad Kee, who are good friends of mine and just brilliant guys. And Brad has been in the industry for, oh, God, 40 years.
[00:34:28.360] - Brandon
Wow.
[00:34:29.160] - Tom
Yeah. He's one of the founding fathers of commercial restoration, as it is today. And he got with them and took a skeleton of an idea and sat down and wrote and rewrote and restructured and created a program called Large Loss Mastery. And it had all the best practices, from damage assessment to scope writing to critical path management to managing changes, managing variances invoicing audit triggers, all of those things, because no one was touching on those things.
[00:35:06.560] - Tom
There was lots of technical courses on how to dry, but there were a lot of programs that were designed on how do you manage? How do you do the job so that you're profitable? How do you estimate it so that you're correct and you're competitive? And how do you do a damage assessment? That's the foundation of the project.
[00:35:26.960] - Tom
And so all of those things weren't being taught anywhere. I put them into the first manual. I think I have three down for three different manuals now with a new one coming soon. With a technician, the next tech, we're going to add a next tech course, which will be the next level technician, but that will come later this year.
[00:35:47.080] - Tom
And that will be based on the same principles, not the technician motion of how to dry and how to remove carpet or how to clean a wall,
[00:35:58.220] - Tom
but more on how to manage people, how to manage the client, how to manage a problem, working through critical thinking, managing the critical path, all of those things that we need the guys to be doing over and above, just pulling equipment and moving equipment and taking readings. We want the next level of everyone. And so that's where I want the journey that I try to take everybody on is this is where you need to be thinking,
[00:36:25.210] - Tom
because everybody gets in this box and they just think like this. My job is to remove the Blinders so that they'll see everything and not miss anything. And look around. Always look around and ask yourself how much and how long? What if that something happened, how much would it cost and how long would it take? And if we're always asking ourselves those questions and plugging in the best practices of what we already know, you're ready to go. So when that call comes for that big job, you're ready, because that's my job is to have you ready for when that moment happens, whether that moment is today or that moment is this year or next year or five years from now, that's our job is to have you ready for when that moment happens.
[00:37:11.820] - Brandon
I love it. Talk to us a little bit about this setting, because I think the setting for what you do is really a major differentiator from other types of training or learning systems that I've at least seen. Walk us through that a little bit. And what does somebody experience when they come to an event specifically done by you, the experience?
[00:37:31.560] - Tom
Well, number one, in everything that we do, we have to enjoy the moment, enjoy where you are, enjoy what you're doing, enjoy the moment. If you're not enjoying the moment, then do something else. And so that's the first thing I always tell everybody and that I want to convey to them when we do a class, say, for example, when we're here at Kennedy Space Center at Cape Canaveral up here, and we're always like at a little resort and to where everybody is in one place so they can network, they can communicate, they can meet new friends, new allies, new strategic partners coming through the class. And so I like having that atmosphere to where everybody's in one place. And we have dinners together, we go to the class together, and then we plug in a case study that we break into teams and usually a team of three or four. And the case study will always be a firewater. And in this last couple of years, we added in Covet and we're there at the resort. So the resort is part of the case study. So there'll be fire and water damage at the resort.
[00:38:36.900] - Tom
And then we tie in a field trip to Kennedy Space Center, and we'll have a fire and water scenario at the Saturn V building or at the Atlantis building or other buildings that are on campus out there. So we get to go on the field trip. But I want them to look at it not through the eyes of a tourist, but through the eyes of what if, how much and how long, and the atmosphere and everything is the built in distraction, because I also want them to be nervous and distracted and look around and say, oh, my God, how do we do this? Where do we start? But by the end of the class, the proposals that are turned in are second to none. And we've taken them in just an eight hour period. They've put together a three or $4 million project. And some of the guys that have done that have never even done $100,000 project. And so it's all in our minds on the limits that we put on ourselves. And one of the things that I pride myself with the classes, we remove those limits and we take the Blinders off because we want them to see everything.
[00:39:45.570] - Tom
Some in the industry, they want the Blinders on because they don't want restores to make mistakes. We want them to do exactly this. We want them to use this. But my theory is if you're trying to keep these guys doing the same thing that everybody else is doing, you're not helping them grow. You're not helping them really at all if you're just afraid to let them make mistakes. Because guess where? All of the biggest things and all of the most successful things that come into this world are based on mistakes that we made or things that didn't work the first time. And so removing the Blinders is the biggest thing for me and getting people outside of their box and then making them feel really comfortable with doing something. And I have to remind them at the end of the class, look around and look at what you just did, look at the proposal that you just put in. I would take their proposals and put them up against any real project that may come up. So it's really exciting to see the light bulbs come on and for them to see exactly what they're capable of.
[00:40:50.190] - Tom
And that's the biggest jolt for me is like, man, look at these guys. I have to grab myself and look around the room and say, wow, look at this. This is happening. This is real. And so it drives me to no end to be better.
[00:41:05.200] - Brandon
Go ahead, Chris.
[00:41:05.940] - Chris
Well, I just wanted to affirm kind of what you said of taking the Blinders off and addressing those limiting beliefs. Right. I could imagine there's some restores out there that are new to the game or they're new to the large loss scenarios or cat work, and they're intimidated. I don't know if I have what it takes to do a $4 million loss. We encounter this sometimes with our clients who are looking to grow and get to the next level in their business. And there's just this kind of fear of I don't know if we're ready. I don't know if I've got the experience or whatever to jump into that area of the business. So Brandon and I, we had a Zoom chat with you, what, a handful of weeks ago, and you walked us through the Edge plus software. Now, for somebody that I've not been in the estimating side, I mean, I've only had cursory exposure to it because I've primarily been on the branding, marketing, sales stuff. But even as a newcomer to that conversation, I felt a great sense of understanding and confidence, actually. I'm like, oh, so this is how it's done.
[00:42:01.240] - Chris
I haven't been involved in a lot of those large loss estimated environments. And so even just listening to you in the way that you broke down the Edge Plus software and kind of walked us through a case study scenario. Yes, this is so doable. This is very accessible, I think, for somebody who hasn't even spent a lot of time on the estimating side of the business. So I just want to affirm that I can only imagine what that case study exercise is like in terms of accelerating people's skill.
[00:42:29.070] - Tom
It's amazing. It's amazing.
[00:42:31.000] - Brandon
One of the things I was thinking about, too, is just the real differentiator. And this is so common. We all buy the same gear right now that you guys invented lay flat. We're all using it, all the things. But there's this reality that in my limited experience, we had the opportunity to work with some larger brands and watch some very competent large loss project managers execute on larger projects. And it is less about and I'm not downplaying the requirement of technical competency. But in addition to that, I guess there is a real key element to the way that we manage the experience is what prevents us from getting in a lot of trouble. And two things that you talked about stood out to me. One is getting some money upfront. I don't know why in this industry we are so shy to ask for funds to do our job, but it is what it is so that you have not because you ask not. I love that. But then it's just prep it's. What does the.ORG chart look like? Who's doing what? What is the combination of leadership to labor force? And that's really what we haven't even tipped into this.
[00:43:39.800] - Brandon
But your software is really designed to help us get a grip on that. And that inevitably helps us save face and liability in terms of consultants and billing and all the things post event. Do you want to just touch on the Edge software a little bit before we close our time together?
[00:43:55.990] - Tom
Absolutely. I'm a keep it simple, stupid guy. And all my life, I like to create things that make my life easier. When I was in my project manager days, back in the early 90s, when the first laptop came out, it was amazing because you could actually create a critical path. You could create these things for the job. And so I always had all of these things in my head. And in the late 90s, I had an idea for an estimating tool where I could put together an estimate on everything, whether it be documents, document recovery, or structure or high tech, which would be your electronics and all of that. And then it just kind of sat on a legal pad for a long time until I started up large loss mastery. And it was like, okay, I started to see where all started to fit in. And then a buddy of mine, grad key who has just taken in an enormous amount of data, created a production rate calculator, which is now part of the Edge Plus. And then out of that grew the rest of the Edge Plus. So it's all based on historical data.
[00:45:04.380] - Tom
And when you use it, you'll see that it's typically we're within 10% either a little bit higher, a little bit lower than any project that you've bid in the past. And so that's always a challenge that we always give to everybody. It's like, take it plug in your projects that you did in the past. It took a couple of days for you to estimate, and you'll see that now you can do what used to take a couple of days or even a day. You can do it in 45 minutes or an hour. As long as you have the right data, you have all the damage assessment done and everything. And that's what's really cool about it is it works and it's accurate. Now, there are some people that going back to some people in the industry, they want to keep everybody in that box, the edges outside of that box. And literally the name says it as it is. I want to take people to the edge. I want them to be on the edge of where they can get with projects and estimated. I don't want them in a box. I want them on the edge of the industry.
[00:46:02.930] - Tom
And so there are people that are like, Tom, we don't want guys, we want to be using the same again, I just don't apply to that. It's like I don't want everybody thinking the same. Everybody doesn't think the same. And everybody should be outside of the box and utilizing all the tools that are out there because this is an amazing tool. And the guys that are using it, that are using it on the most consistent basis are extremely happy. And they are the guys that drive the next version. Every month we come up with a new update. And so one thing about software, it's in constant evolution. It's never complete and I'm never satisfied with it. And or am I ever satisfied with myself? I'm always demanding more out of myself on a daily basis. And the same with the software. It's never complete. And I was having a conversation with some clients on Monday and we were talking about what they were wanting to see and what I was telling was coming in the future. And it's just really exciting, especially when they use it. And I get that call and be like, man, this software is amazing.
[00:47:15.210] - Tom
And I wish I would have had it in the 90s and 2000s. Who knows where we'd be at right now?
[00:47:23.360] - Brandon
Yeah, I think it's powerful. We, of course, are just starting to get kind of a grip on it and learn more about how it's deployed. But I think it's just that for people listening just to be clear, this is not a product pitch. It's more from the perspective of making the transition to commercial can be very intimidating, and we've got to take action to help prevent some of that or remove some of that intimidation so that people can be passionate about it and they can bring it's like we have the saying with the technicians, like making it easier to do the right thing than the wrong thing. Anything that we can do to equip someone or any tool someone can use where it makes it easier for them to, as you say, be creative and think out of the box, it's got to require some confidence, right? You don't freestyle with an instrument until you have enough confidence about the basics that you're not thinking about it anymore. And I think in a lot of ways this software is a tool to help people get there. They don't have to be so caught up on the concern of do I have it, do I have enough experience, whatever they can leverage a tool like this that's got years and years, multiple decades of experience for them.
[00:48:26.880] - Brandon
So again, I want to be clear, we're not big product pushers, and so I don't want people to get the wrong idea, but this is something that will give you more confidence to make this transition in the commercial. And your training does the same thing.
[00:48:38.780] - Tom
And the way to look at it too, is all the training that's out there. We're always focused on sizing equipment, so we're always looking at the CFM or gallons per day. That's all production rate and that's all production rate of equipment. But nowhere is anybody teaching the production rate of people and how to size your crew, because that's what all this is about. And so do you have too many people on the job? Do you have too few? That is the other Besides the estimated part of it is the production rate calculation that tells you exactly how many people you need to do the job, supervisors and production people. So it's very exciting. Everybody should be using it.
[00:49:25.110] - Chris
Yeah. I think again, coming at it from the sales, customer experience, kind of the soft side of the business. I think what I appreciate it is a lot of times the cost of mitigation restoration projects is just this black box to our customers. Even our commercial customers have higher loss propensity, more experience with these kind of damage events and so forth. The whole billing and invoicing and cost of the projects has always been this black box because of exact amount. And it's so robust and complicated and everything else. As I went through that case study with you when you did that for Brandon, and I thought to myself, this really makes the process a lot more plain. I mean, it really breaks it down to the fundamentals. It was so easy to understand where the costs were coming from. And I thought to myself. Well, shoot, I go back to when I'm in the field doing commercial business development and going into customer segments like multi site hotel groups and stuff like that, to be able to sit down with an operations leader pre loss and to be able to take them through a loss scenario and explain the cost factors that drive the overall severity of damage events and so forth would be a really interesting way to augment your sales process or relationship with clients, kind of coaching them through, giving them a really clear view of, hey, if we have ten units affected at one of your hotels, we have this kind of scenario.
[00:50:43.510] - Chris
Let me teach you kind of the moving parts and show you what that scenario is going to look like before it happens. I thought, wow, that is cool. That's potentially a cool sales tool. Have you seen any kind of progressive companies starting to experiment with using it in their sales process or account management?
[00:50:59.070] - Tom
Not yet, but that's part of our business development course is plugging the edge in, not only for estimating, but once you understand how powerful it is and how much leverage it gives you, and you walk into any size company and say, okay, what if there was this scenario? What would it cost? Let's run you through this here's. What your cost, your estimated cost would be under the scenario and under these guidelines. And it's a tremendous leverage tool, especially if you're doing ERPs or DRPS, to sit down now with the client that you just signed up on an emergency or disaster recovery plan, and now you can walk them through and show them what a scenario may cost them. That is tremendously valuable. Number one, it may show them that they're under insured. Number two, it may solidify them and say, you know what? We got the right company, because not only are they saying what they're already telling us what that scenario would possibly cost. And so it's tremendously powerful tool for sales Ops. And then even in the project management world, knowing your production rate when you're a project manager is very important. So that, you know, are you producing what you should be producing?
[00:52:16.840] - Brandon
Yeah, I think the other thing too. We were just talking about this earlier with some training content. Is that pause that happens in these organizational charts or these chains of commands. In the commercial environment, like our onsite leadership, we need to be aware, right, that they have limited decision capacity for a lot of really good financial and business based reasons. And so the more that we can do and the faster we can provide the kind of information to speed up their decision making process, the quicker we can move forward with the project. But if we don't do a good job of creating and providing that level of information, there's no way for them to be Proactive and be able to keep that project moving as well. And I think a lot of people may not fully grasp how much better this tool actually makes, that particular process. I think some companies refer to it as the rough order of magnitude or something along those lines. It's just give these folks tools to make decisions that will therefore make you able to produce the work and move forward with the job. And this would play a really critical role in that as well.
[00:53:23.370] - Tom
We're just scratching the surface with it, and that's the exciting thing about it. And I have to be very patient. For me, if you don't have this weapon in your toolbox, then you're really missing something. And it's one of those things that when we first put it together, it's like we started testing it. It was so accurate. And one of the first things some of the people would say was, where has this been? Why is this the first time? And so very excited about it. And whenever we test it against any of it, it's always there and so very excited about where it's going.
[00:53:59.420] - Brandon
That's awesome.
[00:54:00.050] - Chris
That's cool. Well, hey, Tom, as we wrap up, I think we've probably created a fair bit of interest in some of the different work you do. So could you just share real quickly for people that are just kind of getting turned on to you and Large Loss, Mastery and the Edge Plus are the events that people can get in on still this year that if they're not totally full, what are those? When are they coming up?
[00:54:20.940] - Tom
The number one thing is I always have enough room. And so no matter where we're at, we always have enough room for more. And so you can go to Largelossmastery.com and check out our schedule. Just go to register and you'll see our courses that are coming up. We do have a few more that will be popping up in the fall, but you'll see our full schedule. And then you can also check out the Edge Plus, which is also there @largelossmastery.com. https://largelossmastery.com/llm-membership/ Just click on Get the Edge, and you can select either the Basic edition or the Plus Edition. I really suggest the plus edition because the Basic edition is just really just the calculator. You won't be able to do any scope work or anything like that contracting. And eventually we'll probably stop offering the basic anyway and just offer the plus and so largelossmastery.com. And there is a phone number that's on the top of the page. All you got to do that goes right to me. Any questions or anything come right to me. And so I'd be more than happy to see everybody at a course or if they have any questions at all, just shoot me an email at [email protected].
[00:55:32.740] - Brandon
Awesome.
[00:55:33.370] - Chris
Right on.
[00:55:33.950] - Brandon
Well, thanks again, my friend. We appreciate you hanging out with us. It's exciting to see and talk with you some more. And we do encourage folks to learn more about what you're doing what you're training. It's a game changer, I think for those that are making that transition into the commercial space. So thanks again, my friend.
[00:55:48.130] - Chris
Yeah, dude, we admire what you're doing in the industry, man.
[00:55:50.100] - Brandon
Big time.
[00:55:50.580] - Tom
Thank you very much. Thank you for the time.
[00:55:52.880] - Chris
Right on.
[00:55:55.170] - Brandon
All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart and boot.
[00:55:59.710] - Chris
And if you're enjoying the show but you love this episode, please hit follow formerly known to subscribe write us a review or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn. Share it via text. Whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening. You.