[00:00:07.390] - Chris
Welcome back to the Head, Heart and Boots Podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:00:10.830] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead.
[00:00:17.870] - Chris
I don't know what you think.
[00:00:19.230] - Brandon
I was kind of serious.
[00:00:21.170] - Chris
Should we laugh.
[00:00:25.950] - Brandon
Amigo? How are you, sir?
[00:00:27.730] - Chris
I've been better. Yeah.
[00:00:29.210] - Brandon
I don't mean this in a disparaging way.
[00:00:31.460] - Chris
You look like shit.
[00:00:35.230] - Brandon
You know what's so sad, dude? Is that literally when you told me you weren't feeling well, the first thing that came to my mind was if we do a podcast, say, I got to tell me it looks like crap.
[00:00:47.290] - Chris
I think I've probably had maybe 100 calories combined for the last 36 hours. I emptied my system yesterday and I have not quite refilled the tank. So I've been sipping on beef bone broth and tea.
[00:01:07.820] - Brandon
When you walked up the stairs to our office this morning and you were winded. There's four stairs. Like, we're not talking about multiple flights here.
[00:01:15.920] - Chris
See, there's seven stairs.
[00:01:18.490] - Brandon
Yeah, if you did a couple of.
[00:01:19.770] - Chris
Them twice, I got six more stairs to go.
[00:01:22.540] - Brandon
Oh, my gosh. I thought I was going to have to embrace you when you walked into the office just to pass out.
[00:01:28.300] - Chris
So I'll tell you something I'm excited about this weekend is I have to go see that. The new Top Gun movie.
[00:01:34.710] - Brandon
Oh, my gosh, are you buying aviators specifically for it? Because I'm tempted.
[00:01:39.650] - Chris
A lot of people don't. Coincidentally, I did buy aviators recently. Warby Parker shout out. Hey, baby. No, I mean, one of my first dreams as a kid was I want to be a fighter pilot.
[00:01:48.880] - Brandon
Really? I don't know.
[00:01:50.660] - Chris
Well, my babysitter was in the Air Force and her husband was a pilot. Or her boyfriend, I guess at the time, was a pilot. Anyway, so I was actually the ringbearer at their wedding up at Edwards Air Force Base, I think. Edwards, right? Yeah. Anyhow, I don't know if that was the thing that spurred it or if it was Top Gun. Like, later on it was what, twelve or so? It's a long time ago.
[00:02:10.740] - Brandon
Top Gun did it for me, man. I'm not going to lie about it. I am absolutely stoked. I actually had a close buddy that went and saw it already, and he sent me a selfie of him in the theater with his aviators on. So he was in full go mode. So, yeah, I'm jazz.
[00:02:26.710] - Chris
I'm inspired, man. Tom Cruise. Boy, if I could look like some semblance of that when I'm 60 years old.
[00:02:32.760] - Brandon
It's the witch magic, man.
[00:02:34.020] - Chris
Unbelievable. Yeah, he's a good spokesperson for the Scientology crowd.
[00:02:38.390] - Brandon
He tell you what good spokesperson for anything serious.
[00:02:41.440] - Chris
Aging, absent hair. It's unbelievable.
[00:02:43.640] - Brandon
Okay, so last BS topic before we get into something of substance, you know what we're doing tonight, and I'm really stinking excited about it. The kids are coming home and we're having a Friday night jam session. Season four Stranger Things. We are going to go into full binge mode, just us in the FAM Damie.
[00:03:02.050] - Chris
So I've not fallen into that Stranger Things trap, but you tell me it's worthwhile.
[00:03:07.090] - Brandon
Yeah. It's kind of like if you're a Sci-Fi fan, it's kind of one of those things, like once you get into it, you're going to have a tough time not staying through to the end. You're not a big Sci-Fi.
[00:03:18.830] - Chris
I'm not a Sci-Fi guy.
[00:03:20.200] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:03:20.540] - Chris
I feel like it should be because a lot of my friends are. I know. It's like a thing.
[00:03:25.330] - Brandon
Well, I feel like if you're a human, you should be in the Scifi, and if you're not, then there's a clear chance there's something wrong with you. But that's just my.
[00:03:34.170] - Chris
That's hilarious. Yes, I know. My daughter got into it and whatever. Yeah. Well, who knows?
[00:03:39.950] - Brandon
All right, my friend. What are we Ping pong in today?
[00:03:42.960] - Chris
Well, a lot has been on my mind. You brought up a topic that I think might be a good bounce off point. What was that thing you were talking about earlier?
[00:03:50.670] - Brandon
Well, there's a couple of things I think a bounce back point is probably best stated. Let's be totally transparent about something. We got some news today that we weren't really excited to get. We took a bit of an ego blow today. Something didn't go through that we were anticipating would, and it definitely sucks and wind out of the old sales. And so part of me wanted to wrap a little bit on, I guess, the recovery from a blow to the pride or what feels like a pretty significant roadblock.
[00:04:24.390] - Chris
You decided to go there. Okay, great. Thank you. Thanks for just throwing it out there and sucking me into we were publicly going to process that.
[00:04:33.800] - Brandon
We can't rewind it now, so you're going to have to think out loud in the ending.
[00:04:38.290] - Chris
Yeah. I think when you're starting a company, every setback, no matter how well things are going, feels like a really big deal.
[00:04:49.500] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:04:50.510] - Chris
It's emotional, right?
[00:04:51.840] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:04:52.400] - Chris
When you're starting a company, you don't have the giant war chest of money that you've accumulated yet you've got progress, you got traction, you have friends, you have cash flow. But, boy, when you get a setback, it just feels like it feels so heavy in the beginning.
[00:05:09.240] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:05:09.610] - Chris
And I think when you and I look back over our career together, we had a nickname for it. We call it the Trophastaro.
[00:05:18.830] - Brandon
You just get your ass.
[00:05:22.550] - Chris
It was particularly relevant when we were operating in the field. Right. I mean, you would just have a series of things happen. It's like, right when something was going wrong, it was like the universe would pile on. Right.
[00:05:35.520] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:05:36.420] - Chris
And it was just really difficult. We called the Trough of Sorrow. Right. Because whether you look to the right or to the left, it's just ominous. Right. It's just like you're in the bottom of the Grand Canyon, and it's just barriers to the right and left and then this long path in front of you to get out of the Canyon. And at any time a flash flood could come on top of that. But you know what's interesting, though, is when we got that news flash that was not fun this morning, there was a bit of a relief because I think sometimes when we're stretching to reach or grab hold of something that wasn't ever quite right. But when you're a new business, it's like every opportunity is just this flashy neon sign of opportunity. I think sometimes all you can see there are the attractive bits of this thing in front of you. And so when it falls through, you're like, oh, man, the financial aspect of it, whatever it is.
[00:06:36.650] - Brandon
Well, the reality of it is with all this stuff, it's all context, right? I mean, I think we were talking about this a little bit with the blue collar boys and just remembering the perspective that comes with the context that each decision or each setback or each opportunity is sitting at. When I got that call this morning, we had that call this morning, actually, one of the first things I did was I was processing a conversation that we had with a friend in the industry last week. I think it was and maybe we're pushing two weeks, and they were just kind of talking about some of these really heavy experiences that they were having with their business. And of course, we don't unpack the personal parts of that. But just this reality of this convergence, I think, of professional relationships and personal relationships as they relate to our businesses and just listening to this individual talk themselves through and us about, hey, this is heavy. It's hard. It's been actually a hard year. It isn't going to kill me, but it certainly is impactful and certainly has weight to it. And so again, I'm thinking about this individual in the year that they've experienced, and I'm thinking about this one minor setback that we are facing currently.
[00:07:46.880] - Brandon
And it's like, oh, man, you got to keep that in perspective because it's easy for me to get really caught up in my situation, my thing, and do a little bit of spinning out, if you will, on it or whatever the case may be. And it's just like there was something that triggered right away that maybe just go, man. But there's been some real gnarly stuff that had happened to our fellow entrepreneurs and business owners this year.
[00:08:10.050] - Chris
Yeah, it's so true. I think, too, when you step back and you think from a position of gratitude that you and I have just been so lucky.
[00:08:19.160] - Brandon
Oh, yeah, really fortunate relationally. We've just been very blessed, and it's been a lot to both of us for certain.
[00:08:26.120] - Chris
I think this particular setback or that deal not going through, blah, blah, blah, I think everybody's listening can relate we've all had a deal not go through. Right. I think something that makes it feel heavier is when there's a relational part to it. I think in some ways it's the relational part when we're working on a deal and just put whatever deal you have in front of you into it, you're putting a part of yourself out there. And I think it's the personal part of when a deal doesn't happen or doesn't go through now or shifts gears or whatever, it's just the personal. The relationships and stuff are what hurt the most. It's not the money or that kind of stuff.
[00:09:08.990] - Brandon
It's actually kind of interesting that you say that. I think it comes back to some of the reasons that in our professional environments we struggle with some of this woo woo language. Is it's not necessarily that it feels fluffy all the time anytime we talk about love or using kind of these more emotionally charged references when we're talking about our staff or our relationship as leaders to our downline. And one of the things that you and I have promoted over the years and certainly did it in the different leadership roles that we've had and continue to develop was really trying to well, it's like with Clint Polver. Right. Really talking about this connectivity in relationship with accountability and how much that means to us and how important we believe that is. Anyways, where I'm going with this is I think sometimes what we see is a real struggle to commit to that from leaders, because I think there is almost something in them, whether it be subconscious or conscious where they're going. Yeah, you know what? I've tried that before, and it felt like shit when it didn't work out the way I wanted it to.
[00:10:12.420] - Brandon
And the easier response to that then is I'm just going to callus this wound over and from here on out, I'm not going to do that again. Right. And so there's part of me right now I think that this is really going out there, I think. But part of me responds to situations like this. Even though I've led in this kind of highly relational way most of my career, it doesn't take away from when it doesn't go the way I want. My initial response is almost always, Fuck that. I'm never going to do that again. And I don't know if it's super applicable to this one situation, but I think that knee jerk response is pretty common. So I think part of me right now is going, okay, I had that knee jerk response of, okay, guard up, not going to do that again. And then the reality of it is, man, is that having this kind of relationship or deep relationships with the people that we want to do business with and for the folks that we do business with, it's just for me, it's the right way to do it. So there's a reality I might be kind of pissed right now, but I'm going to go back to having that kind of role.
[00:11:18.260] - Chris
I just think it's who you and I are. And I think to me, it's so much easier to do business with kind of an open kimono, so to speak. It's like what you see is what you get.
[00:11:30.240] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:11:30.900] - Chris
You and I don't hide things. And I think the risk in that is that it feels more personal because it is personal, and business is personal. Business is about people. Right. But, boy, I think that's a really common reaction or response is, man, I put myself out there and look what happened. Look how my employee took advantage of that or that business partner or that vendor or whatever it is. It's like whenever we decide to put ourselves out there or allow ourselves to become emotionally involved with others, there's the potential for it to hurt. And I think that's a little bit of what you and our feeling just because we put a lot of ourselves into this one particular relationship. And I think there's something about just sitting in that, and it's okay that I'm a little bit sad that that didn't pan out the way I wanted.
[00:12:24.750]
Yeah.
[00:12:25.150] - Chris
You know what I mean? Yeah, it's all right. That that's a bummer, because I put a lot of myself into that, and so did you. Yeah. And at the same time, it could have potentially turned out totally different. Like, we weren't stupid for putting ourselves out there. You know what I mean?
[00:12:38.470]
Right.
[00:12:38.830] - Chris
So it's like, okay, we didn't get the outcome that we had sort of envisioned or planned for, but I think we always have a choice after getting burned, am I going to never do that thing again, or am I just going to be more conscious and aware going into the next time while still choosing to live in that way? I don't know. I just think whenever we do business in a personal manner where we really take the relationships into account, there's going to be room for disappointment, hurt, and all that stuff.
[00:13:07.990] - Brandon
It's interesting. It kind of reminds me a little bit. Not that long ago we had Dan Pink on the show. We just tiptoed, I think, really surfaced into this whole idea of regret and how to use that in a more positive way. I think actually we got to do a little piece in CNR with that. But actually it reminds me a lot of this kind of experience in these kinds of scenarios. And I think it's really an applicable tool, and that is that part of what we suffer from when a situation doesn't go the way we want or a deal fails or a merger or some kind of partnership doesn't go in the direction that we want. I think part of what you're wrestling with is your morning a version of something that you had created in your head that actually had never come to fruition yet anyways. And so there's this element of I know for me personally, I'm looking I had all these visions of, okay, it's going to go to this, and then from this position, we'll be able to develop that to this thing. And from there we can carry it on in these multiple new phases because that's just kind of how I'm wired.
[00:14:07.800] - Brandon
Anyways. I'm already three years in this relationship down the road. I think it's interesting because I've caught myself. I think at times when deals like this don't go through is you're mourning something that actually you have no idea if it was really going to be that or look anything remotely near what you had created this story. Right.
[00:14:28.910] - Chris
In some ways it's kind of funny, like the timing of all this, because literally just moments after or just before this, we were on a phone conversation with an investor friend connection of us that they had a deal fall through. And we aren't talking about we're talking about a whole different scale of deal. Right. Like tens of millions of dollars. They had to walk away from it. It's like, okay, and what was their response? Well, onto the next thing.
[00:14:52.280] - Brandon
Yeah. The data didn't support the decision.
[00:14:55.680] - Chris
They didn't support it. So we moved on right now.
[00:14:58.180] - Brandon
I think it is true, though. I mean, the reality of it is we're all going to be facing scenarios with our businesses. A lot of it's going to look very internal, right? It's going to look like those relationships with our employees. It's going to look like when we invested in a leadership role or leadership person on our team or we're a salesperson and we're looking for that next multi site MSA agreement or something along those lines. And you work and you work and you work towards something and you feel like you've invested in giving it every level of effort that it required and needed. And it just ultimately ends up netting at zero, which is going to happen. That's business 101. And so we're all going to be faced with these kinds of situations. And so I think just trying to deliver some tools to help us manage through that better. And if I had to kind of like isolate one, I think we need to do ourselves a service and really say, okay, what am I morning right now? Is it a story or is it actual data supported thing? And if it's the story, maybe just muttering that almost out loud to yourself, like, you know what?
[00:16:01.900] - Brandon
I'm technically bummed about something that never even came to fruition or we don't even know what it was going to actually look like in the first place. And is there a little bit of weight relief when we're just consciously activating right instead of just being sucked into the bummer or whatever? Anger, frustration, whatever the case may be?
[00:16:23.640] - Chris
That's a really good point, man. We get so far out ahead of ourselves and we end up creating pain for ourselves because we become so attached to the outcome that we're seeking before it's ever really in motion. The stories in our head, dude, for me, I realized more and more as time goes by. And of course, Brene Brown introduced that idea to us. And Eckhart Tolley, I think, talks to a great degree about this in A New Earth. Just how 90 plus percent of the thoughts we have in our head are repetitive and non useful. Right. At any given time, our mind is using us rather than us actually using our head. We create these stories in our head that ultimately most of the time creates suffering for us. I realize this is all kind of New Age, but I think it's very applicable and I find it all very practical. I guess it's this idea of being present in the moment. So often our ego what our ego does is our ego pulls us into the future, what you should be, where you should be going, what you should achieve. And our ego also loves to look to the past, to our past successes and our failures.
[00:17:30.780] - Chris
And the ego loves to be defined by what we've done or not done and what we're going to do in the future, while at the very same time, it just means we're not actually in the moment. We're not actually bringing our full self to what is on my agenda today. I have my meeting with my general manager at 09:00 and my head is 1000 miles away into what should be or what could have been or whatever else. And I'm going to roll into that meeting and I'm not going to be present to the person, the person that I'm engaging with. It's like, how often am I lost in my thoughts and my thoughts are just totally taking me off course. Our mind is so good at filling the gaps. What does this mean? Well, I don't know what it means. For all I know, it means one door closes, another one opens. Right. I'll take that right. I've certainly experienced that in my life many times. I know you have. But my mind wants to conceive just all manner of details about what this change in that relationship means. It doesn't mean or what we gave up by walking away from that deal, you know, or whatever.
[00:18:38.650] - Chris
But Meanwhile, we're here.
[00:18:42.650] - Brandon
There's still the deals closing.
[00:18:44.590] - Chris
I still got three kids at home. My wife is still probably going to text me and say, hey, can you do dinner tonight? And we're still going to go see Top Gun this weekend, probably in our business, we'll move forward.
[00:18:55.260] - Brandon
Yeah, absolutely. It is interesting. I think you're right. I think there's just this level of kind of combination. We take all these things, I think, super personally. I know I do. I'm just kind of wired that way. Anyways, I've never been as good as I guess, letting it roll off my back as a lot of people. And it's come in really handy and it's been a tool and a resource that I've used very effectively over the years. And there's certainly times where it's cut me instead of being a benefit. But I think that's just part of.
[00:19:24.610] - Chris
The course as I continue to just kind of come down from that phone call this morning over and over in my life, dude, when I've had something I wanted and it didn't work out, I almost always within minutes or months. I can see why it was better for me that I didn't get that thing. You know what I mean?
[00:19:43.040] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:19:43.630] - Chris
I haven't had many major letdowns in my life that in hindsight weren't necessary in some way. It is interesting and sometimes not always. Sometimes it's in the form of later on, I'm glad I'm not married to that person, that customer, or that employee or business partner that I was so jazzed about. It had all the reasons to be excited and looking forward to that thing. And later it's like things come to the surface or whatever where you realize, you know what? That might not have been the best employee for me to hire now, because maybe you get word of how they conducted themselves at the next company they want to work with and you're like, oh, okay, I guess I dodged that bullet. We've all had that experience. But likewise, when you get that sale that fell through, it's like later, you discovered would have been a really difficult customer. That would have taken a lot out of me to be in that relationship. I think all of us too, can think about our dating history and everything else where it just seemed like so weighty. And he realized, you know what? It wasn't quite right in hindsight.
[00:20:42.390] - Chris
I was caught up. I was caught up in the moment, I was caught up in the conversation. I was caught up in what? The shiny opportunity?
[00:20:49.420] - Brandon
Yeah, I think so much too is like it's an iteration. I think sometimes we feel like certain exchanges or our opportunities are all or nothing and it's just not right right now. That wasn't the right list. That wasn't the right scenario at this moment in time. And kind of going back to what you're saying is you're right. Nine times out of ten, I think I can look backwards and see how things actually ultimately worked out for the best. Not taking away from training or proactivity or strategic thinking or any of those things. I'm not saying you just kind of go with the vibe, but it is true that most of the time when you look backwards, it was like either there was a great lesson from it that gave me tools and resources that I didn't have previously. It wasn't the right iteration or version of something that ultimately sends you back to the drawing board, makes you do some more critical thinking that makes you iterate the next thing that actually was a better version of something. And yeah, maybe it's saved from buyers remorse or some kind of relational type engagement. It is true.
[00:21:55.230] - Brandon
I think the challenge for me, though, is even though I'm certainly not the youngest guy on the planet at 45, I've got plenty of Battlestars and stories. And yet it is still pretty difficult in the moment to have this kind of positive bounce of, you know what, nine times out of ten, it normally works for the best.
[00:22:15.310] - Chris
You were pretty hot, dude. I could read it in your text messages. I'm like, oh, man. I also like that part of you. It's like you got a fiery spirit. You feel things, you run hot. And I appreciate that. All right, let's take a minute to recognize and thank our MIT Resto Mastery sponsor, Accelerate Restoration Software. And I'm fully aware, by the way, that when I say those last two words, restoration software, that that instantly creates heartburn for some of you out there.
[00:22:46.590]
Right?
[00:22:46.830] - Chris
Because we probably all fall into one.
[00:22:49.260]
Of two camps when it comes to software.
[00:22:51.290] - Chris
We've either cobbled together kind of a version of free website tools and spreadsheets just to make our business work, or we're in the camp where we've adopted one of these existing restoration platforms, one that has all the bells and whistles and supposedly does it all, but we can't get our team to consistently adopt it and input information to it.
[00:23:14.470] - Brandon
Yeah. And that's really where Accelerate has honed their focus. They've created a system that's simple, right? It's intuitive and it focuses on the most mission critical information, I. E. Guys, your team will actually use it.
[00:23:29.440] - Chris
Let's talk about sales. Right? After years of leading sales and marketing teams, the biggest trick is getting them to consistently update notes about their interactions with referral, partners and clients. And the essential piece there is there's got to be a mobile app experience. And in our experience, the solutions that were previously out there were just too cumbersome and tricky to use. Yeah.
[00:23:53.290] - Brandon
Imagine, guys, how your business would change if your entire team was actually consistently using the system. Do yourself a favor. Go check these guys [email protected] MRM.
[00:24:08.420] - Chris
And check out the special offers they're providing to MRM.
[00:24:11.430] - Brandon
Listeners.
[00:24:12.710] - Chris
All right, let's talk about Actionable Insights owners. Gms you can't be your business expert on all things estimating. You might have been three years ago when you're writing sheets in the field, but the industry is always changing and.
[00:24:26.160] - Brandon
So are the tools.
[00:24:27.390] - Chris
If you're the smartest person in the room when it comes to Xaction at Matterport, how does that scale you're the bottleneck? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is where actual Insights comes in. They're a technical partner that can equip your team with the latest bleeding edge information and best practices, and then update them with webinars and training resources when the game inevitably changes again. For this reason, we recommend actual insights.
[00:24:51.710] - Brandon
To all of our clients. Yeah. Three of the kind of big things that stuck out to me when being introduced to AI and their team. First off, is this consistently updated training. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys are the experts. They're out front all the time. They're constantly learning new trade secrets and ensuring that your team's got access to those things. A 3700 plus page database of exact amount templates. I don't know what else to say here other than don't reinvent the wheel. It's already available. Download it, copy it, use it. Bam database of commonly missed items. I think this is huge. So many of us can change the numbers by just moving the needle a couple of points. And those commonly missed items can make all the difference in the world. So go check them out at Value Gitinsights.org.
[00:25:45.710] - Chris
The other thing we were talking about earlier, and I wasn't sure how this was going to connect you. And I have our notes where we kind of keep track of ideas and things we want to talk about. And I read this Harvard Business Review thing about creating an open door for employees to come back, which is not necessarily what I was going to reference here, but just that how disappointing is it, right? When you have somebody good that leaves you talk about sadness and frustration let down. And I know some people listen to this. In fact, I know because we've had some clients who have had that happen, somebody they just invested in, invested and invested and leave to go make more money or something. And oh, man, it's like on the one hand, you're so personally invested in them, you want them to be successful, you want them to go make more money. And the loss to your business. Your business is your own, too, right. And so it's almost like a part of your body was taken out. When you have a key person that you cared about and you wanted to see, you know what I mean?
[00:26:46.970] - Chris
It's really hard. It's really hard. And so when I read this article from Harvard Business Review and undoubtedly they're referencing more like large companies, like creating a doorway back into your company and destigmatizing when people choose to leave for a different opportunity and all that kind of stuff, it's like, yeah, that's great. That's great. When you have an organization of 5000 or 50,000 and you can hire somebody that's in charge of employee alumni and there's some cool ideas in there. But when you're a company with twelve people, right?
[00:27:18.820] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:27:19.400] - Chris
Or six or 20. And it's really hard. It's really hard.
[00:27:26.750] - Brandon
I think it goes back to this.
[00:27:28.110] - Chris
First point is that you can't have the pleasure or the joy of making a difference in people's life. Right. Like really moving the needle and affecting things if you're not willing every now and then to confront that the pain of sometimes it's betrayal, like somebody just betrays that an investment you've made in them. And other times it's just the sadness of, okay, they got a better gig. This is good for them. So I don't know what I'm offering here to whoever happens to listen to this, but I think there's no way out of that. The more committed we are to avoid the pain of let down whatever kind it is, that deal that didn't happen, that business partnership, that whatever or that employee that leaves if you're going to care, if you're going to care if you have that give a shit, you know, about people, you are going to feel let down, you're going to go through those things.
[00:28:21.700] - Brandon
Yeah. You know what? I think you actually kind of tapped into a really interesting chain of thought here as it relates back to kind of the original topic. Is it's what we do in response.
[00:28:33.230] - Chris
Right.
[00:28:33.560] - Brandon
And I think one of the things that you had pointed out in that article was to basically very proactively when that moment happens actually already have something in place that says, hey, the door is open. It's not like they burnt through a hand grenade into the room on their way out the door. That's different. That's not what we're into here. Yeah, but it's this idea of if the individual left strong and it's a sad situation because it's a let down on this kind of picture that you had and where your business was going. What this role this person would have in it is that not allowing our ego to take over so that as they walk out the door, we don't then slip into this behavior that demonizes them for leaving or demonizes them for taking this opportunity and keeping a healthy sense of communication and a healthy door open so that maybe at some point in the future somebody could step back into that relationship and participate in that. And I think the same rule applies to business relationships or partnerships or deals where, hey, right now, it's not the right fit. So don't spin out, don't lose control, don't do something, say something or act in such a way that then actually closes the door of the story that actually still had the potential to be created.
[00:29:48.070] - Brandon
And it's so hard to do in the moment. And I think probably the most relatable version of this, which is why I love that story that you or that article is this probably is most likely the kind of situation that we're going to feel the most with our employees, key leaders, key influencers, people on the team that we're investing in. That's probably the most common ground that we're going to have this type of scenario happen. And it's just like, OK, well, let's take a breather. Let's identify the portions of this thing that aren't accurate, that they were just a story that I was beginning to create or envision? And can we separate ourselves personally from this, like, instead of it being a personal thing, can we just look at the data for a moment and say, okay, how do I want to respond to this rejection? How do I want to respond to this individual leaving my team or this business deal that was a no? And do I want to respond in such a way that I'm going to still admire myself? Right.
[00:30:46.790] - Chris
Yeah. And leave the door open? Can I choose to consider that it wasn't personal, like this other person had legitimate reasons for their choice. Right. That are maybe hard for me to understand but feel just as compelling to them about like they feel just as good about the decision not to do this thing or to leave the company for this other opportunity as I feel sad about the choice. Right. I think it's just considering that I don't have all the information and I could be wrong. Like, the reaction I'm having to this could be wrong. It could be misplaced. I've been watching in the mornings, my wife puts on this Franciscan Monk on YouTube in the morning.
[00:31:29.550] - Brandon
I wasn't sure where you were going there because you just started watching my wife in the morning, which I'm like, that's cool. It's good for your marriage. But where are you going with this.
[00:31:40.420] - Chris
Guy named Richard Roar? And Richard Roar, he's a Franciscan Monk in New Mexico. Anyway, he was talking about addiction. He gives these homilies, he gives these talks, and they're really good, but he's just got this really mellow voice. And it's kind of this mellow vibe, my wife likes to say when the kids are getting ready for school and stuff because it's not usually mellow in our household between my 16 year old, my 14 year old in particular. It's like it is some level of war raging that is almost always happening. So Kara felt like at least part of the solution might be to have a Franciscan Monk in the mix. And I've actually gotten kind of used to it, and I enjoy it. I stand there with my coffee and I'll stand there and listen four or five minutes and then go about my business, come back and whatever. But he was talking about addiction, and I thought, this is interesting. I wouldn't consider myself an addict in the way that we generally talk, like an addiction to drugs, alcohol or something like that. But he said the universal addiction, particularly the American mind, is that we are addicted to our perspective and our way of thinking.
[00:32:42.200] - Chris
We can get locked in and committed and loyal to the way that we see things and interpret things.
[00:32:48.170] - Brandon
Oh, man. Yeah.
[00:32:49.200] - Chris
And just how much it has a lot of the same outcomes of any other addiction in terms of the choices it causes us to make, the harm that we choose to cause toward others. All that stuff purely because it's hard for us to step outside of our perspective and consider another perspective on this situation at this moment have experience. Like, I wish somehow I could live in that space more often where I can be more open minded and not have a rush to judgment or get that story going in my head. Right. But I have felt what that's like in a number of situations where, well, I'm really upset about this, and I'm able to just kind of Zoom out and create some distance between myself and that situation and think about it in a more open minded way. And it's like then all of a sudden you start to consider all these other reasons, possibilities. What else is at play here? And I think in that place is wisdom. Yeah.
[00:33:46.980] - Brandon
That's so applicable. That's really applicable to conversation. Yes, it is. It's funny because there's all these little coin terms that everybody uses. Like the way forward is failure, fail quick, and all these things. And we all understand the premise behind that and how that makes sense. And if you're not trying. Right. Or if you get kind of frozen because you're afraid of what a possible failure outcome may look like, I think it's an easier understanding when we step out of that more like kind of, how do I put this, like this idea of knowing something versus experiencing it. Right. Like fail quick because it'll put you on the right path and all those things. We understand them mentally, but experiencing them doesn't always align. Like, it doesn't always line up and give us the motivation that we need. I think what's unique about what you're saying right now is it gives us some more Proactive way to engage these kinds of situations. And it's less about getting totally pumped by failing. And it's more realistic in the sense of just take a breath. Just pause for a moment when you have this exchange or this let down or this break up or whatever these things are.
[00:34:58.520] - Brandon
Give it a moment to air out and ask yourself a few questions before you take any kind of action. Because normally that knee jerk reaction that we're all about to take often won't give us the result that we're looking for. And it removes our ability from being able to learn from a failure or something not going the way that we want it to. And so that's what's interesting about this idea of this addiction to our perspective is if you can kind of buy into that idea, it allows you a little bit of freedom. That okay. If my perspective is not the all accurate, 100% true, then that gives me the freedom to maybe learn something from this situation, to take a break, to take a step away from, to de.
[00:35:42.500] - Chris
Personalize and de escalate it in our own head. Maybe there's something else going on. Maybe there's different angle on this. Okay, so one of the other little notes I had.
[00:35:50.940] - Brandon
This was from weeks ago.
[00:35:53.280] - Chris
I added this in. I was listening to Renee Brown on her DAREDE Something podcast. She had two or three podcasts. Now. I don't know which one it was.
[00:36:02.180] - Brandon
But she says it's Dared to lead.
[00:36:04.000] - Chris
I think, yeah, it might have been the DAREDE Lead podcast. And she had Charles Duhigg, and they were talking about habits. Charles Duhigg, he wrote a book called Tiny Habits. I think, anyway, we'll have to have it.
[00:36:16.760] - Brandon
Show notes, I think 100 calories in three days.
[00:36:19.020] - Chris
Is it's affecting me? Oh, man. But he shared or she did. I think he did shared a quote from Judd Apatow, which is one of the most successful movie directors, I think, in history. He wrote mostly comedy, stuff like that. Seth Rogen, as soon as shows and like The Hangover that was he's done like 50 movies or something crazy.
[00:36:45.480]
Yeah.
[00:36:46.090] - Chris
But this quote he said was very interesting and maybe it's a big part of his success and why people want to work for them. He's been such a successful director, I don't know. But he made this comment showing disrespect to someone will cause them to sacrifice themselves to destroy you.
[00:37:01.380]
Ouch.
[00:37:02.100] - Chris
And I'm thinking about that in the context of our conversation and just how human it is to be hurt, angry. When something doesn't go our way. Right. When the story doesn't match the outcome, something happens like, Whoa, this wasn't how it was supposed to be. It shouldn't be this way. Something's wrong here. This should not have happened. How we as humans naturally react, like our gut reaction is anger, frustration, fear, sadness, whatever. All these negative things when something bad happens. And I think as leaders, knowing that about humanity, I think it just gives us that much more caution in how we I think it's another reminder as to why it's so important for us to step outside of ourselves and to discipline ourselves, to see others as humans just like me, and to approach separation or a failed deal or something with that kind of gentleness. It's not something we talk a lot about with leaders. Right. But I think there's something to that. There's a respect. I think that even in times where there's a separation or something doesn't work out. Right. Is just being conscious of, am I respecting this person in this equation?
[00:38:11.410] - Chris
Am I being respectful? Because, boy, I've seen that when they said that Jet APTO quote, I'm like, Whoa, that explains a lot of the crazy stuff that happens in our businesses, for sure. When people feel disrespected, all bets are off. It's like you and I've had this happen with unfortunately, not a lot. But I can think of a couple of instances where I was not disrespect is a big white umbrella. There's a lot of ways to disrespect people, and I've certainly been guilty of that with employees and colleagues and stuff over the years. And, boy, when you disrespect somebody you can expect there's a story that's going to form there, and it may create some action that is really unpleasant.
[00:38:55.140] - Brandon
Well, and I think it also supports this idea or I guess gives credit to the fact that we can cycle into that, like, easily feel in quotes, disrespected after, whatever a break up, an employee, leaving, whatever the case may be. And so I think that quote or that perspective just helps us remember there is a strong chance that if we act purely on default, we're going to.
[00:39:17.410] - Chris
End up throwing ourselves under the wheel bus, too.
[00:39:19.740] - Brandon
That's it. It's like we have a strong potential. That what we say, what we do, how we behave is going to have some pretty negative effect on us. And it's so interesting. I feel like there is part of me that when we do our shows and we have some of these conversations, as diverse and as crazy as the world is, a lot of the things that we discuss, a lot of the principles, a lot of the opportunities that we have to unpack certain ideas and concepts, man, they kind of still come back to one or two, three threads. So it's really difficult for me to detach all this from the whole ego conversation of just how many times a day, how many times a week are we just getting so swept up in these natural animalistic responses to the situations that we experience? And how often, if you just look at the quotes, the statistics, these deep thinkers that are unpacking humanity, it comes back around to the default behaviors that all of us are susceptible to. But the more time that we put in and invest in taking time to think through, taking time to get activated in the moment instead of responding out of default, it's just as a game changer, man.
[00:40:40.290] - Brandon
It's like the difference, I think, between really elite performing individuals and the masses. I think you can point to a lot of people that are performing at an elite level and you can identify how much more often in most situations, they are aware and present right then, not worrying about what could be, what should be. They're not in the past, they're not in the future, they're not pre worrying about what someone's going to feel about them when they go back around and say, yeah, I celebrated too early. That deal didn't go through. But they're in the moment. And by being really aware and present in the moment, they are able to deploy a whole new set of tools that give them the highest chance of having a successful outcome versus just getting sucked up and swept away of these animalistic default responses. It's wild, dude.
[00:41:29.930] - Chris
I'm still kind of hanging on that comment about wisdom because I think all of us want wisdom. What is wisdom? Well, I think wisdom is wisdom is considering all possibilities and hanging there long enough to be able to select the best path forward, right?
[00:41:47.960] - Brandon
Yeah. So easy on paper.
[00:41:49.800] - Chris
And it's like wisdom, though. It's almost like we have to step out of our side of ourselves to really take hold of wisdom because we are so freaking addicted to what got me. And I think part of it, too, is that we can become really addicted to the behaviors and choices that got us here would become so reliant on what helped me build my company to 2 million that those same. I mean, there's nothing new under the sun, is there?
[00:42:18.160]
Right.
[00:42:19.130] - Chris
It's like, what got you here won't get you there. And yet it's so true. And that's wisdom. It's wisdom that gives us a different answer. It says this best practice or this mantra that we've been living and breathing to get us to 2 million is probably actually not going to be the thing that gets us to five or gets us to ten. Right. But wisdom is able to step outside of that and potentially talk to other people, gather other perspectives. But wisdom is the one that says, okay, hold on. Let's do a little bit of a pause break here. Let's Zoom out.
[00:42:53.170]
Yeah.
[00:42:54.020] - Chris
It's also why a guy like William Shatner, I don't know. I was hearing this on a podcast when he referenced this. William Shatner had a chance to go up in Bezos near Earth orbit or something. That they did.
[00:43:04.810]
Yeah.
[00:43:05.310] - Chris
And he got off at the ship at the end of the press conference, and he was visibly like, very emotional. And he said, if only the whole world, all the people of the world could have the experience I just had, we do away with all our petty bullshit disagreements. I don't know if he said that, but that was somebody's narrative on it. It's just important. Other astronauts and people have been known to say this, that it changes their life when they're able to see just how small they are and just the biological sameness of us all. It's like we're all in the same big floating Orb in the universe. And there's something about making that connection. And I think in a sort of metaphorical way.
[00:43:43.660]
Right.
[00:43:43.840] - Chris
That's wisdom. It's zooming out and it's saying I probably don't understand all the different facets of the situation. I'm getting all worked up about this thing right here because of what it's going to mean for me short term money wise or what it's going to mean for now, I got to go recruit another person. We're so wrapped up about a piece of this situation, it's hard for us to step back and see the bigger picture. And yet that's where wisdom is. And I think we have so many examples of wise people in our culture. We did like little snippets. Right. Like Warren Buffett is known for, hey, when everybody else is going crazy selling stuff off, he's buying. Right. That's a common investor principle. Right. As you buy when everybody else is selling. That's where the opportunity lies. And yet the conventional wisdom is sell it off. Oh, my God, it's dropping like a rock. But it's wisdom that steps back and says, wait, there's an opportunity inside this. You know, I think that's a perfect.
[00:44:41.720] - Brandon
Place to land the plane, my friend.
[00:44:43.440] - Chris
Yeah.
[00:44:44.300] - Brandon
All right, guys. Okay, thanks for joining us.
[00:44:46.270] - Chris
Until next time, we'll see you.
[00:44:49.370] - Brandon
All right, everybody. Heath, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, heart and boot.
[00:44:53.910] - Chris
And if you're enjoying the show but you love this episode, please hit follow formerly known to subscribe write us to review or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn. Share it via text. Whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.