[00:00:07.390] - Chris
Welcome back to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:00:10.850] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we leave.
[00:00:17.870] - Chris
I don't know, what did you think?
[00:00:19.450] - Brandon
was kind of serious?
[00:00:21.170] - Chris
Should we laugh? I really wish you would obey me with this whole microphone position because now I can see freely. I can see the whole world around me, but I can't see you.
[00:00:35.990] - Brandon
Do you notice that you are taller than I am? Do you think that that enhances your I don't know. Okay, we are recording. Are you going to put your earmuffs on? Are you doing the show with me?
[00:00:46.810] - Chris
I feel like it looks more attractive with them off.
[00:00:49.390] - Brandon
That T shirt is banging, dude. Because you're pulling the pump. Give us a pump, man.
[00:00:56.550] - Chris
I don't know. It didn't feel that impressive. I've got this bump saying that. Whatever. Who cares?
[00:01:01.630] - Brandon
The bump.
[00:01:02.210] - Chris
Let's move.
[00:01:02.650] - Brandon
Where's your bump?
[00:01:04.120] - Chris
Like, my head oh, you have a.
[00:01:06.690] - Brandon
You know, my dog has that, too, actually.
[00:01:08.650] - Chris
And it looks more pronounced when I have that.
[00:01:11.240] - Brandon
When you have the headphones. Yeah, I see what you're saying.
[00:01:14.780] - Chris
You know what? This is really embarrassing. Let's keep going.
[00:01:17.450] - Brandon
Now, before we move on, what kind of shirt do you have on right now, Chris? Just wondering.
[00:01:22.290] - Chris
Well, it's not a uniform, if that's what you're implying.
[00:01:24.420] - Brandon
Well, I did realize you're quite dressed down today with a T shirt. Is that something? It's a pocket t. Okay.
[00:01:34.410] - Chris
And it's better than a wet T shirt, right?
[00:01:36.910] - Brandon
Well, it depends possibly on the audience member, I think is where the questions are.
[00:01:44.640] - Chris
I don't know, man.
[00:01:45.440] - Brandon
Okay.
[00:01:45.830] - Chris
I'm not going to be attracting any super fans with these headphones on or anything. We'll see.
[00:01:51.860] - Brandon
Just so you know, so that you're confident the remainder of the day, I do not think the bump is a problem. Okay.
[00:01:57.340] - Chris
All right. I feel better about myself that are.
[00:01:59.680] - Brandon
Going to actually watch this on YouTube. Maybe it'll be more funny. Okay. I have an idea.
[00:02:03.410] - Chris
We are on YouTube, by the way. That's new.
[00:02:05.120] - Brandon
Oh, yeah. Coming straight to your eyeballs through YouTube.
[00:02:09.530] - Chris
Two mustaches for the price of one.
[00:02:13.110] - Brandon
Oh, I've got so many places that I wanted to go with that, but I'm not going to.
[00:02:17.690] - Chris
Oh, jeez.
[00:02:18.240] - Brandon
Okay, I got a topic. Okay. It's kind of interesting. So I'm going to set the stage. You ready for this? It's going to take at least the 45 minutes to set the stage. It won't. So hang in there. Okay. Ed Milet, huge fan. You know that I geek out on a lot of his podcasts. I'm not entirely sure why. I just like the guy. Like, I think the way that he relates to his guests and stuff is just cool. I like him. And he could probably binge press a house, and the guy is, like, super kind. Anyway, okay, long story short, he's interviewing a man that is now like a pretty prolific speaker towards the world and does big speaking engagements. Really interesting guy. Anyways, they were diving into his backstory. So you've got a gentleman who grew up, upper middle class family. They had good education, access to great education. Apparently it was a very committed family, lots of interaction, kids clearly felt loved. Pretty great household, really. He goes on in high school to become a star quarterback. He's got a gift. He can huck a football, and they're based in Texas, and football in Texas is religion.
[00:03:23.790] - Brandon
So he's worshiped in some ways, right? Like this kid has got a lot going for him. Gets a full ride to a major Texas university as a starting quarterback. Goes on to play four years of football as a starting quarterback. Again, Texas College.
[00:03:39.090] - Chris
This guy is an all American.
[00:03:40.190] - Brandon
This guy is, yeah, he's checked all the boxes, apparently goes on, graduates college, great grades, start quarterback, the whole thing. And then his life begins to unravel and he becomes a wreck. Now, I'm not going to go through the whole thing. Anyway, it's Ed Milette, his most recent episode. Check it out if you want all the details, but here's one of the things that he had mentioned was when he was nine years old, an event happened with a female babysitter, and in that relationship he was exposed to sexual acts as well as alcohol and potentially some drug use. Okay, so anyway, fast forward a handful of years. This guy goes through all through college. He goes through all of high school and college. Ends up basically continuing to chase in a somewhat controlled manner drugs and alcohol. Okay? And he had mentioned pretty heavily that alcohol was kind of the big thing that kept driving him, but he had mentioned this fact that he just really was a detective personality. It was challenging for him. A lot of us, we get exposed to stuff throughout our years, and it doesn't become an issue. We're not chasing the dragon, if you will.
[00:04:47.330] - Brandon
Sure. Well, this guy ends up falling down into a place where he eventually uses meth. He becomes hopelessly addicted to meth and then starts a crime spree. Not violent crime, per se, but he just ends up spending many years robbing.
[00:04:59.830] - Chris
Homes, stealing catalytic converters and things, feeding the machine.
[00:05:04.080] - Brandon
Right. And so he ends up getting convicted. And for whatever reason, he kind of talks through the story of his experience in front of the jury. But long story short, they give him apparently a note came out ten minutes after the jury. After six days, they go in to what do they call that when a jury deliberation? They deliberate. Ten minutes. Ten minutes. They send a note out to the judge and ask if it's possible to give this man a life sentence without parole. Now, here's the thing. There's no violence in this guy's crimes. Anyway, I'm not going to go you watch. That crazy right? Okay. That's crazy. So anyway, as long as short of it, he ends up getting 65 years, he serves 16. Wow. He served 16 years. So college, pro athlete, right. The whole mix. Ends up getting hopelessly addicted to meth, goes to prison for 16 years. Interesting. And I've got a point. It's all going to come together. So hang with us, guys. But listen to the story. This is bonkers. So as he's in the county jail, he's prepping to go spend 65 years potentially in prison. We're talking prison prison, okay?
[00:06:14.010] - Brandon
And while he's in the county jail, he's going around to these people, and he's talking to them like other inmates in the jail system, right? Because most of them are in jail, on their way to prison, and most of them are coming back. Sure. And so he's talking to them like, how do I survive? What am I going to have to do? What do I need to be prepared for? This guy's going to work studying how he's going to live, going through prison. This is not white collar crime shit. This is real prison. And everybody's telling them, you've got to join the gang. You need to get hooked up with the Aryan Brothers and get a gang, a family, immediately. Otherwise you're going to die. Now, before he starts walking around asking all these people what he's going to do, his mom and dad come in there's like this window of time right after you're convicted, where your family can come in and meet with you. And it's weird. Anyways, his mom came in, and he really put weight on her direction. This is powerful, man. This mom, who just found out that her son is going to go away to prison for 65 years, walks into the room and goes to work, not emotional, doesn't fall under the press.
[00:07:19.920] - Brandon
She comes in and goes to work, and she says, Listen to me. We gave you access to things. We raised you, right. We equipped you. You owe us. And she said, you're not going to join a gang, and you're not going to come out of that prison system with gang tattoos. That's what you're going to do for us. You're going to serve your time, whatever that time looks like, because you owe society for the choices that you made, and you owe us, and this is what you're going to do. Okay? This is f*%^&ing wild, right? Okay, so he goes to prison. He's in jail. Sorry. He's running around asking all these guys, what am I going to do? I'm going to die. Like, how do I survive? And they're telling them, you're going to join an Aryan gang immediately because it's a white guy, and you're going to become part of that family, and they're going to keep your ass alive in the story. That's what you're going to do. And you're going to come out of prison after 16 plus years covered in tattoos because that's what happens when you join this gang. Everybody over and over, and he's like, I've made a commitment to my mom.
[00:08:13.540] - Brandon
How am I going to do this? How am I going to survive? So anyways, last guy, he's an older man, black man. He's basically what you would call a career criminal. This guy has spent the majority of his adult life in and out of prison. Guy sat him down and he said, look, you can survive. You can make it through this without joining a gang. You can walk alone is what they call it. But it's no easy ride like the way that you will walk alone. This is what's going to happen. Freaking trippy. You are going to fight the white brothers first, and if they don't kill you, then you're going to fight the black brothers. And if they don't kill you, you're going to fight the Latinos. And after all that, if you're still alive, they're going to respect you enough to let you walk alone. This is this guy's options, guys. We're not talking about little jail. This is big time prison. And the man has just told him, you can either join a gang or you can literally fight everyone. And if they respect you enough, you'll have the earned the right to walk alone.
[00:09:13.840] - Brandon
Then he goes into detail about how this is going to go down, right? He's like, when you first show up, the Aryan brothers will approach you first, and they're going to send you a non fighter first. He's just there to gather information. He's going to find out whether your immediate first step is to join the brotherhood or if there's another family that you're going to join or what you're going to decide to do. Okay? Right after that, a big brother is going to come in, and he's going to whip your ass. Essentially, they're either going to whip your ass into the gang, or they're going to whoop your ass because you chose not to join that particular gang. This is what this man was going to face in his first ten minutes. Anyway, he goes through, right? And he starts laying out like, here's what you're going to do. This is how it's going to happen. This is how it's going to come at you. This is scary shit, man. Okay, so he shows up. He gets off the bus, walks in the doors. He's there ten minutes, skinny little white guy with a bunch of slastica tattoos walks up to him and says, what gang are you part of?
[00:10:07.100] - Brandon
What family are you going to be a part of? And he has to start right out of the gate by saying, not you none. I'm not going to be a part of any gay. 30 seconds later, huge corn fed white man, tattoo of a swastika on the top of his head starts walking down the stairs toward him. Oh, and by the way, the black gentleman from the county or in the jail system said the first thing you do to the fighter that comes at you is you don't even listen to a word he says. You just punch him right in his mouth. You don't even allow him to speak. He's got one purpose, and that's to whip your ass. He's not there to talk to you. The big man comes down, steps in front of this guy and he literally listens to his direction and he punches this guy right in the face. And he said it did nothing. It didn't even faze him. And then he just proceeded to whoop his ass. Okay, guys, listen. This is a white American, all American kid who's grown up in upper middle class family, star football player.
[00:11:00.780] - Brandon
Life gets messed up. He ends up becoming a criminal, goes to prison, and literally within minutes, he's getting his ass kicked. Just like everybody in this prison system said, what happened? OK, long story short, I'm not going to go into all of it. He does this he literally fights for his life every single day. And he said it's very interesting. And I've got some correlations for us. And this is where I'm going. The one last story, this was the final fight. This was the one that essentially he became able to walk on his own, walk alone as they call it. His roommate, his cell mate warned him, hey, this individual is talking in the yard. He's going to come rape you in the shower. He gives him a fan, a motor from a fan and he puts it in a f*%^&ing sock. And when this guy comes after him, he literally tries to beat him to death. He doesn't succeed. And he says, thank God, right? That he didn't succeed. This is our boy. This is what I'm talking about. He used a fan motor in a sock to defend himself and literally almost beat this man to death.
[00:12:06.630] - Brandon
Okay? That was the final straw. That was the final fight where the system basically said he's tough enough to walk alone. I share that story because I think it probably captured some people's attention. I know it did mine. Now here's where I want to connect the dots here. One of the first things these two men talk about is to really powerful concepts. And the first one is this. And this is where I want to hang with the conversation. The first principle that they talked about was the man lost 80 plus percent of those fights. He literally just got the shit kicked out of him, okay? Every day though, he woke up and realized, today, I'm either going to fight and get in a win, or I'm going to get my ass kicked. Every single day that this man woke up, that was his options in front of him. I'm going to spend the entire day behind bars. I may get killed today. I'm definitely most likely going to get my ass kicked and maybe I'm going to fight and I'm going to come out on top. This is what this man is going to live for potentially 65 years.
[00:13:07.480] - Brandon
And so this idea that A, we wake up every day with extreme challenges in front of us as business owners, key leaders and people who influence people and a success and we talk about batting averages, right? You only need to hit 300 right out of 1000 times, right? Like is a winning hall of famer, right? Like we think about this in our business fail fast. We have all these cheeky little things that we say about being a business owner and none of them hit me the same way as a man who's waking up every single day with his life on the line, who worst case scenario is going to die. And best case scenario, he's going to walk out with a broken nose, a couple of missing teeth, he's going to physically get his ass kicked, okay? And he lost the majority of those and still earned the right to walk alone. So hang with me. But here's my thought with this is what is the lesson for us as leaders to understand what it takes to create the grit that could wake up every day? And guys, I'm not saying this is an inspirational life by any means, but let's keep it in context of what we really face day to day is not this, right?
[00:14:14.400] - Brandon
But if an individual, man, woman, whatever is in a situation like this where they know giving them everything that they have, they're going to lose 70, 80% of the time. Yet at the end of that journey, they will still earn the right to walk alone. That's one thing I want to hang in with you. Here's the other thing that just blew my mind and it actually got me a little emotional when I was listening to it. Ed Milet had an alcoholic father and eventually somewhere down the line, somebody spoke to him and reached out to him and met him and got him to get clean. And Ed Milet talks about it all the time, that that man, whoever this person was that influenced his dad to help him get clean, literally is currently changing the lives of millions of people because his dad was able to turn his life around. He was able to contribute to Ed in a way that was healthy and it didn't crush their relationship. It didn't take the man and the goodness out of Ed. And now Ed is the type of influencer that literally speaks to millions of people and his influence is positive.
[00:15:16.970] - Brandon
It's healthy, it changes lives. It's the kind of influence that challenges people to step up and be what they're meant to be. So this one no named individual has influenced indirectly millions of people. We talk about our boy who went to prison for 16 years and this black man who went different lifestyle different economic background, different world perspective. They are not the same people. But this man invested in this guy and it saved his life and ultimately allowed him to walk out, fulfill his promise to his parents. He got out early release both the guy that spoke to Edmonton's father changed the course of his life forever and now changes the course of millions of people. And the man who spoke into this gentleman's life before he went into prison who now he got out. He's a prolific world speaker. He travels the world speaking to tons of crowds of people, changing lives, motivating people, right? The whole thing. Both of these individuals had sins that they had experienced in the past and it's what equipped them to speak into the person that was in front of him in that moment. What struck me so much about that was I have sins in my past.
[00:16:26.160] - Brandon
I have things that I've done, decisions I've made, mistakes that I've made, people that I've hurt. Like I have not been awesome all the time. And in those failures they often are what fuels the voice in my head that I'm a fake or that I don't deserve to have audience with people. Or it's those things that speak into why I'm a dirt bag or I'm a POS when I'm having these negative thoughts or whatever the case may be. We all do it. We may not all want to talk about it, but it's happening. And what's crazy is what both these guys were trying to say in the moment was it was those sins, those weaknesses, those failures that equips us to have the voice that not only is effective but relates to the audience, to that person on the other side of the table that we are now speaking to. And if we're willing to step into that as a leader, the effect that it can have potentially on thousands, millions of people is utterly profound. And so these two things I almost feel like they go together, they parallel each other and that is that men, women out there who are key leaders, business owners, sales leaders, whatever, the parents, right?
[00:17:36.740] - Brandon
You have a sphere of influence that you're leading and participating in in some way. And there's two things. One is you can be a winner even after failing a whole bunch. And in fact it's likely that those failures like we saw in this example are exactly what will equip you to be the right voice at the right time to have the most impact on your sphere of influence and likely those even outside of your sphere of influence. And the reason that just affected me so much and why I wanted to chat about it today is that I personally grow so susceptible to that shitty voice in the back of my head that tells me I'm unqualified to talk to people about success because I've had failures. And so those two things, right, it's like they live together at the same time. What kind of mental transition do we need to make to where we maximize that? We understand our failures. We understand that it's okay to fail more often than you don't, and it still makes you a winner. And in those failures, understanding those are the things that actually equip us to have the right voice at the right time.
[00:18:41.320] - Brandon
So most of the people that listen to this, at minimum, you're a parent. At minimum, right. Most of you are leading teams, leading businesses, own businesses. You're leading people with messy lives. Right? We have down line employees, and we've been spending the last year every front I can see, like, seeing our magazine, everything on LinkedIn. Everything is about attracting people, hiring, getting people on your team. How do you keep them engaged? And you and I have touched on this topic a lot, and there's just a reality that when we say yes to owning a business, hiring personnel, whatever, that we're taking on a whole new responsibility. And that responsibility is leading people. And people are not a system. People are not a process. People are messy. And we have a bunch of f*%^&ed up stuff that we've done, said, heard, made mistakes, and we've got to tap into that stuff to be the kind of leader that motivates people to get out of their current situation. I don't want to necessarily steer the direction of this, but that's just where my heart is. That's where I landed after hearing that this was the thing I felt when we were building some of the companies that we were was I didn't really care about the money or the thing that we were selling.
[00:19:57.050] - Brandon
All I've ever cared about was the people on my team. And I think part of the reason is because my childhood is not rad, okay? There's some things I'm blessed by. There's a lot of things I wasn't. But that reality is what gives me the ability to connect with my blue collar tech staff, with understanding what life really looks like when it's not all f*%^&ing roses and gum drops. Right? It made me appreciate our working staff because I had the same background that they did. Like, I understood what was challenging them when they walked in the next day. And that was powerful. It had a positive impact on the culture that we could create because I wasn't faking it. I was relating to them. Right. And I think one of the things that we see happen over time is we start getting so disconnected because we've had the opportunity to be coached or mentored or raised up in such a way that we've started to create distance between our old mistakes and the old behaviors that we had versus where we are right now. And kudos to you for making that transition. Don't lose sight of that was just you were fortunate.
[00:21:01.800] - Brandon
You worked hard, you made good decisions, great but you were still that person somewhere in the past. And I don't say that to you to guilt you or to remind you of failures, but it's like, don't lose the connection to that, because that's what makes you a real person. That's what makes you relatable by your staff to other real people facing real challenges.
[00:21:22.230] - Chris
All right, let's take a minute to recognize and thank our MIT Resto Mastery sponsor, accelerate restoration Software. And I'm fully aware, by the way, that when I say those last two words, restoration software, that that instantly creates heartburn for some of you out there.
[00:21:39.190] - Brandon
Right?
[00:21:39.430] - Chris
Because we probably all fall into one of two camps when it comes to software. We've either cobbled together kind of a version of free website tools and spreadsheets just to make our business work, or we're in the camp where we've adopted one of these existing restoration platforms, one that has all the bells and whistles and supposedly does it all, but we can't get our team to consistently adopt it and input information to it.
[00:22:07.070] - Brandon
Yeah, and that's really where Accelerate has honed their focus. They've created a system that's simple, right? It's intuitive, and it focuses on the most mission critical information. I e, guys, your team will actually use it.
[00:22:22.040] - Chris
Let's talk about sales, right? After years of leading sales and marketing teams, the biggest trick is getting them to consistently update notes about their interactions with referral partners and clients. And the essential piece there is, there's got to be a mobile app experience. And in our experience, the solutions that were previously out there were just too cumbersome and tricky to use.
[00:22:45.490] - Brandon
Yes. Imagine, guys, how your business would change if your entire team was actually consistently using the system. Do yourself a favor. Go check these guys out at xcelresorationsoftwood. Comrm and check out the special offers they're providing to MRM listeners.
[00:23:05.310] - Chris
All right, let's talk about actionable insights. Owners. GMs, you can't be your business expert on all things estimating you might have been three years ago when you're writing sheets in the field, but the industry is always changing, and so are the tools. If you're the smartest person in the room when it comes to exempt in matterport, how does that scale you're the bottleneck? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is where actual insights come in. They're a technical partner that can equip your team with the latest bleeding edge information and best practices and then update them with webinars and training resources when the game inevitably changes again. For this reason, we recommend actual insights to all of our clients.
[00:23:45.540] - Brandon
Yeah, three of the kind of big things that stuck out to me when being introduced to AI and their team. First off, is this consistently updated training. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys are the experts. They're out front all the time. They're constantly learning new trade secrets and ensuring that your team has got access to those things. A 3700 plus page database of exact amount templates. I don't know what else to say here other than don't reinvent the wheel. It's already available. Download it, copy it, use it. Bam database of commonly missed items. I think this is huge. So many of us can change the numbers by just moving the needle a couple of points and those commonly missed items can make all the difference in the world. So go check them out at value. Gitinsights.org.
[00:24:38.710] - Chris
I'm reeling from that story and I'm with you, man. I think so. One of the things that comes up for me, I was sitting on the back deck reflecting the other night and I have my little notes, my Apple notes on my phone, right? And the thought that occurred to me, I was just thinking about this idea of how my grandparents, both my grandfathers I was fortunate to know they were imperfect people. They grew up I think in an era where you kind of compartmentalize your life, you go to work those to the grindstone. Like there's a certain ethic that we learned from the greatest generation, right, of you take the negative shit and you kind of put it in this box and there's a lot of ways to put it in the box, right. For a lot of people it was alcohol, it was maybe for some people it was flandering. It was like there was ways we just numb that out, covered that up, kept it in its own little container. And then we go home and we have our Beaver cleaver. Sort of like we have this all American family thing that we do and we maintain and there are these other areas in the background or it was like we go to work and we have our work life and our persona there.
[00:25:56.490] - Chris
And I think something that's happening whether we like it or not or we're ready for it or not, is there's this mass integration happening where it's like, yeah, all of us realize that doesn't work, having these different lives that we're leading at the same time.
[00:26:14.830] - Brandon
Yeah, it's like the audience isn't buying that anymore.
[00:26:17.170] - Chris
People don't believe it anymore. Right. And I think it's because we've all become so engaged in packaging and presenting ourselves on social media. We just all inherently know what we're doing. We know that we're looking at lies and we're sharing lies. And so I think it's a very positive thing that's happening in the world. And it made me think of about 1015 years ago, 15 years ago. Yeah, jeez. I was running this little entrepreneurs group called Speaker Lunch and I'd go hunt down and I'd bring in CEOs and stuff to talk to our little group over lunch and a couple of CEOs I can't remember which one it was that said this. If it was the thenco of Zappos.com or if it was the guy that started Classmates.com, maybe some of you still get emails like somebody looked at your profile. You want to see pay $49. I still get that twice a week. But I met the guy, Randy Conrad started that company and then sold it to a bigger company and now lives in an island in Hawaii or something. Now, but Randy I think it was Randy that said, look, when we're hiring, one of the things we like to do is we like to take that candidate out with their spouse and be able to observe them in an alternate environment.
[00:27:29.970] - Chris
We take them away from the office, we go out to a place, we bring our spouse and we get to create this sort of other context just to see how they conduct themselves. He said, the other part of the process is we take them down and we get them in touch with our downline staff, our frontline people, our midline people, and the whole time we're observing to see that they have an integrated personality. Is this the same person with their spouse, with their kids, with their direct reports, as they are with the board of directors, with their colleagues in the C suite or what have you? And I just remember 1015 years ago that seemed very progressive. You can hear that from a CEO 15 years ago. And now I think it's just more and more commonplace. But anyway, the reason I say that is I think now our people expect that honesty and transparency and there's a lot of power in it. It is the power of our leadership, is being honest about where we come from and the experiences we've had. It's the main thing that connects us to other people is our shared experience.
[00:28:36.600] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:28:37.140] - Chris
And I saw that over and over again. And it was because of your background, your story, that I think there was a powerful we had something special there.
[00:28:46.820] - Brandon
Yeah, we did.
[00:28:48.110] - Chris
You know what I mean?
[00:28:48.860] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:28:49.420] - Chris
And I think it was that shared experience.
[00:28:52.330] - Brandon
Yeah. It's interesting. You and I have talked about this before, and I think this is maybe where some of the nuance exists in this kind of topic, is we've talked about the difference between being authentic and being transparent. I don't know why I struggle with saying authenticity. I don't know how you say it's.
[00:29:09.380] - Chris
Because we're on a microphone.
[00:29:10.950] - Brandon
It's like I have speech tourettes or something. Anyways, that difference between being authentic and being transparent, what you and I have discussed and I think we are on the same page as you can be authentic all the time. 24/7 does not matter. The situation. However, you can't be fully transparent all the time in every situation. And here's the nuance. The difference being authentic is being dedicated to a code of conduct, a moral code, attitudes, behaviors, right. Core decision making mechanics. Like, you can take a stand for something. You can be this kind of person. And this is what we're talking about. Like, I'm branded at home just the same as I'm branded at work. Now. Some of the things that I do in terms of responsibility create differences and where I can be as transparent as possible, it's just different. Okay? But I can still be the same version of me, or at least I want to be. I want to be aligned and congruent both here at home and at work. That's where what we're talking about here, I think, is that when we're saying relating to people and understanding them, it's this idea of remember what experiences you had and lived through that built.
[00:30:22.770] - Brandon
You don't lose that. It doesn't mean be a criminal anymore. It just means stay connected to the scars, the experience that created you, and be authentic to this version of who you are now. Be authentic to that, but don't forget what got you there, right? Like the steps that it took that you're not holier than now. You are a product of work in progress. The transparency component is where we deploy that with appropriateness as leaders. Meaning I'm not going to, in front of my Downline staff, just air out all the challenges I have as a leader because there are times they need me to be steadfast and strong and positive. They can't have me laying all my cards out on the table that I'm as worried as they are about XYZ transition or XYZ process or job market or sales strategy, whatever. But I can be authentic in that moment. I can still be realistic about, yeah, there are questions surrounding whether or not this will work, right? But here's what we're going to do. Here's why it's important. This is how it's going to affect us. All of that can remain true even though you're not fully whining and crying about the fear that you have in the situation.
[00:31:31.920] - Brandon
But then you can also deploy that transparency. Like, hey, when I'm sitting down and I'm having a coaching moment with one of my Downline personnel and they talk about how they came in late and why it had to do with the kid being up all night and all this and that. It's like you can be transparent, that you went through that, that you did that you understand that you're not expecting them to be a robot. But there's got to be a better way that we manage the chaos. There's got to be anyways, I'm getting down the ways. But you feel me, right?
[00:31:57.530] - Chris
That yeah, I totally feel you. And I think, too, it's also just staying connected to the fact that, like, this guy, all of us had somebody that gave us a shot, give us a break, give us a helping hand, put up some guardrails for us, made an introduction for us, advocated for us. Every single one of us has. The idea of us being self made. And I had a shitty upbringing, and I just managed to overcome it. It's just not a true story. I haven't met a person like that. It didn't end up in a good place and completely did it on their own accord with no assistance, right?
[00:32:37.890] - Brandon
Not completely.
[00:32:38.750] - Chris
I think part of what you're saying, too, is recognizing in the people that we are in a relationship with and we work with our employees and so forth, it's so easy to get caught up in all the bad choices they're making and to develop this warped perspective of just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get your shit together. And I think the reality is some people, they need the mentorship to be able to get over that hump. Somebody played that role for you. Many people. And the same thing for me as well. There were critical people that entered my life and either gave me an important perspective that helped kind of turn the lights on for me or in some cases kind of slapped me around. Like at the time, it felt like discipline. It didn't feel good. I didn't even see it until later what they had done for me.
[00:33:27.220] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:33:27.710] - Chris
And yet I think as we're working with our downline, we see their foolish choices and stuff like that. It's really easy to come at it from our current position.
[00:33:36.080] - Brandon
Current context.
[00:33:36.920] - Chris
Yeah, current context of, I make good decisions now. I'm responsible, I'm where I'm at because I made a lot of good decisions along the way. And we forget about those moments where we were very broken, we were misguided. We didn't have it in. We didn't have resources, we didn't have support and help. And somebody came in and just created a way for us, give us an opening. That's one of the things that Story makes me think of is, boy, it's just really easy to just get in a frustrated posture with our people and forget that we were once that I.
[00:34:12.800] - Brandon
Think you bring up a really good point there. I just kind of want to poke at it a little bit for our audience, maybe just from my understanding is let's use guy going to prison story. Let's use that same example. Now, did anybody fight his fights for him?
[00:34:26.980] - Chris
No.
[00:34:28.090] - Brandon
Did he have to have the mental fortitude and the grit to get back up and go do that every single day? And did that play probably one of the most influential aspects of his success and him coming out of that? Absolutely. And you can't discredit that you can't take that from him. Sure. But had he walked in with the same perspective to be able to follow that path, if that gentleman from the county jail system had not taken the time to teach and mentor him and prepare him for what he was about to do, no way. It would not have been the same outcome. Yeah.
[00:35:00.770] - Chris
The moment that big dude was walking down the staircase, who knows what his decision making process would have been?
[00:35:06.640] - Brandon
The whole trajectory could have been different. And that goes back to what you're saying. It's like all of us, the attitudes that we've had to adopt, the grit that we've had to develop, not having excuses, the willingness to take ownership and to step into and do hard things, certainly paid dividends. It's why you can now be a business owner. It's why you can be an entrepreneur. It's why you're trusted as a key leader on a team like you did, that we're not taking away from that. Like you said, if all of us are honest, there was key relationships, key moments in time that gave us the opportunity to either change that perspective, to pull our head out of a place it had been before, to become more aware about a weakness or a strength that we may not have paid attention. You're right. None of us really do it on our own. You play a big part in it. True. Right. But none of us really did alone. I mean, I had a very interesting relationship that brought me into this industry, and they gave me a shot. On paper, I didn't warrant the position they were giving me and they gave me a shot.
[00:36:11.610] - Brandon
I think it paid dividends. Without that opportunity, I have no idea.
[00:36:15.060] - Chris
Who knows?
[00:36:15.680] - Brandon
I likely wouldn't have the opportunity to meet and work with business owners on a regular basis. That probably wouldn't have been my outcome. So again, it took a lot of grit. I did make some good decisions. I did overcome hardships and things just like everybody else. But if it wasn't for that relationship, giving me that opportunity, who knows? That wasn't mine. Right. I didn't know that. I think you're right. And I think that that's where what we can use to remain grounded. You know what I mean? As we adapt and overcome, it's not guilt or shame, it's not going backwards. It's not reverting back to this old personality. It's just having a respectful recognition you weren't always who you are right now. Yeah.
[00:36:58.080] - Chris
And it goes back to that basic principle we talked about a lot leadership and Self Deception, that book that we've talked about so many times.
[00:37:03.740] - Brandon
Right.
[00:37:04.010] - Chris
It's like when we're in the box, we can really see the people around us, and this is particularly true in business, but we do the same thing with our spouses and our kids and even our friends sometimes. But when we're in the box, using the leadership self deception model, we tend to see other people as obstacles, as barriers or tools, vehicles with which we can get in and we can get where we need to go, objects to sort of move around or trample over. But then when we get out of the box, the only thing that really changes is we're seeing others as people just like ourselves, with hopes, fears, dreams, suffering, failures, disappointments in the past, trauma, abuse. Everybody's story is a little bit different, but all of us have suffering that we've gone through. And so I think that's a lot of what this is about, too, I think, is that message of, I think, really reflecting and taking a moment to pause, because as owners and senior leaders, man, it's so easy to get in a tunnel. We're just so hyper focused on our objectives in front of us that we find ourselves in the box where we're seeing our downline staff as pieces that we have to move around rather than people that really, truly are just like us.
[00:38:22.940] - Chris
And it's quite possible they're just like we were 14 years ago, 22 years ago, that they're just they're begging. They may not even know it, but they're pleading for somebody to come into their life to give them something that will help change their experience.
[00:38:43.490] - Brandon
Some of the people on your team.
[00:38:44.830] - Chris
Could just be desperately waiting for somebody to come in and give them a different perspective, a hand up, an in, an intro, or whatever it is that they can't do for themselves.
[00:39:00.290] - Brandon
No, I dig that. Let's hang in that zone for just a second, because I know that as an employer, I mean, dude, how many conversations have we had with clients and peers this week where their personnel are doing something, acting in such a way, failing to perform, like there's a legitimate issue and they're trying to find the best answer. Do I cut them? What is disciplinary action look like? Is there any blah, blah, blah? And so I think I just want to take a couple of minutes to maybe just talk about what some of this looks like in execution, just to give it some ground, right? And all of you listening, the majority of probably walking through scenarios that you can relate to in your own business, your own life, where this takes part or where this has an impact. But here's one of the things I want to encourage us as we think about kids, as we think about maybe nieces and nephews and family, distant family, our own employees, whatever our relationships is. We're not trying to say that because you were a certain way at one point in your life, let's say a handful of years ago, you didn't have the same technical competency, you didn't make decisions the same way.
[00:40:04.360] - Brandon
Maybe you just weren't as responsible as you are now. Whatever. That does not mean then we don't set expectations for people because we didn't meet those same expectations years ago, before some of the development, some of the failures, some of the gains, blah, blah, blah. What we're saying is we use that as a way to guide how we interact with the individual. Let's think about an employee situation. You've got an employee that just makes very poor evening decisions, and they just consistently struggle to show up prepared for the day. Once their motor gets ramped up and they pull their head out, they tend to work great they've got a good work ethic. It's just this consistency is just a plague, and our team sees it. My direct line supervisor frustrated because this one individual cannot show up 15 minutes early to save their life. Well, I think our knee jerk reaction is dumb kid doesn't make any good decisions, wish they'd pull their head out of their ass. Can't they understand if they could only get their shit together, they could have this great career? Like all these things. And you're not wrong, but just remember what it was like to be in their shoes at their age.
[00:41:13.640] - Brandon
Were you a business leader at that age? Were you an owner? Were you showing up 50 minutes early? Were you the first one in and the last one out all the time? Probably not. That came over time. Yeah, right. Okay, so what do we do? We sit an individual down like that, and this is where this balance of transparency and being authentic comes into play, as we say, Hey, Toby Smith. John whatever. Can I give you some perspective as an outsider looking in on your role, this company, and your performance with us? Is that okay? Yeah. Great. Okay. First off, one of the things I noticed about you is when you get going, like, when I go and see you at a job, like, man, your work ethic is strong. You're sweating, you're getting it done. You're doing the right containment. You're doing the steps that we want. You really do a great job. I'm going to be honest with you though, man. I think out of the last 14 days of work, you've shown up 15 minutes early so that you're prepared and you're setting an honorable example for those around you twice. I have to be honest with you, that is a super challenge as a leader for me to develop a system and a team around somebody that really struggles to show up consistently on time.
[00:42:20.980] - Brandon
And honestly, it's not a scenario that I can allow to continue. Let me just give you some perspective. When I was your age, man, I got fired four times. I could not keep a damn job. I could not get momentum. I struggled with drinking at night. I really had issues pulling my shit together. The moment I finally started practicing enough discipline to show up early, XYZ happened. This led to this. That was the opportunity that made me a project manager, and eventually I went out on my own and started my business. I'm going to ask you something, man. Can you pull your shit together? Can you show me and the team, can you do yourself the honor and create a system where you can establish discipline and show up on time? I need you to do that. It's a non variable in terms of your employment with me, but I'm asking you that as a person. You think you could do that and see how that conversation goes? They are absolutely responsible for their own behavior. I did not give them an out. I did not give them freedom to show up anytime they want.
[00:43:24.520] - Brandon
I did not show them that I don't care. I did not show them that this is not important. But I respected them. I showed them that I was human, too. I am human, that I did similar things. And it's what makes me so frustrated when I see other young people make the same mistake. I was transparent enough. I was authentic, and I did not give in at all in terms of what the expectations look for my team. Now, that individual can still choose to do nothing with it, and I will fire them. But I treated them like a human, and I gave them the opportunity to hear good advice and potentially be one of the first voices to tell them there's a different way. See the difference.
[00:44:04.030] - Chris
Oh, man.
[00:44:04.620] - Brandon
Right. So for those of you listening, like, maybe it's a little bit drama version of it, but you're all facing this. All of you are frustrated with personnel because you're looking two corners down the path, and you can see how much better it gets, and they just don't see it yet. They're just stuck. Go meet them there. Be honest, be open. Have the hard conversation. Do not give in in terms of what the expectation looks like, but respect that person and be a voice that honors them and gives them an opportunity to hear what it could look like after that. You're not responsible for their decision making. You can't make them choose to walk through that door, but, man, you can sure open the door the right way. Right. And I think that that's the kind of activity, the kind of ways that we can carry ourselves as leaders that you will respect later, that you can honor later. Yeah, it's really easy on paper, dude.
[00:45:02.280] - Chris
I don't have anything to add, man. I love where you've gone with us.
[00:45:07.430] - Brandon
Yes.
[00:45:07.930] - Chris
It's about respect. It's just seeing others as people, and it's really easy. It's easy for me. We get a tunnel. We get so hyper focused on that idea, that project, that thing, that growth, that initiative, the punch list of to do items are all of the things. And it is so easy when somebody gets in the way of that. Somebody is not meeting standards, somebody's creating a problem. In our business, it is so easy to treat them as a problem rather than a person. And what I just heard you say is you just respectfully address the problem with the person, and I think it just says a very slight change. Right. It's like you're being authentic about, hey, I've had this problem, too. It's just a problem. It's solvable. You could make a decision, and this decision may have some really positive outcomes for you if your experience is anything like mine. Yeah, and I tell you this because I don't want to see you after you fired four times like I did to finally get the message right. Is this all it's going to take? I hope so.
[00:46:12.710] - Brandon
Yes.
[00:46:15.290] - Chris
I hope that I can help you figure this out right now.
[00:46:18.300] - Brandon
And there's going to be plenty of opportunities where it just doesn't it ends in frustration. We talked about this a handful of episodes ago. We had a client that experienced it. Let it go. Let the ownership of it go. Once you've approached it the appropriate way, you can't own it after that, but we can come out the right way. Okay, guys, so hopefully that ring true for some of you. I think a lot of you can relate to it. That man we are works in progress. Let's remember that and let's celebrate it. Let's be excited about it. This is no way meant to be a downer. It's like there's something excitingly, freeing when you realize it's okay for me to be connected to where I was and be excited about where I'm going at the same time. So anyways, good luck. We'll talk to you next time. All right, everybody. Heath. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart and Boot.
[00:47:07.530] - Chris
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