[00:00:00.170] - Brandon
How you doing, amigo?
[00:00:02.290] - Chris
You and I had a bit of it. We were just coming out of a reality life conversation here. I have mixed feelings.
[00:00:08.150] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:00:08.710] - Chris
Got some goods, got some bads there's.
[00:00:10.870] - Brandon
A little bit of shit sandwich in there too.
[00:00:12.600] - Chris
Yeah, a little bit, man, it's real life.
[00:00:14.100] - Brandon
Real life. That's right. Not all gum drops. And you know, we've got an interesting episode today. As a professional, it's interesting to me sometimes looking back when you've had these actions with people and how many times when we've been honoring to that relationship, how often later something happens that everybody gets to benefit from. And I think this particular person, Angie Brun, the interesting thing about her is that we have kind of this history I won't go into, but you and.
[00:00:44.450] - Chris
I are being like hugely cryptic in our intro this time.
[00:00:48.750] - Brandon
Let's put it this way. Angie did a great job of calling me out a couple years ago. And it was funny because I think there was a lot of different ways I could have responded. One of them could have been super egoic and defensive and not only would I have not gotten the lesson out of it that I ultimately did, but I think we wouldn't have had the opportunity to talk to a professional who in very real terms is kicking ass and taking names.
[00:01:11.740] - Chris
Oh, yeah. And that we have a lot of alignment with a really cool yeah, yeah.
[00:01:16.200] - Brandon
Tons of alignment. So, anyways, it's an interesting show today we're going to bring in Angie. Angie's coming from the corporate world. The majority of her professional career has been at the VP executive level, leading sales teams in large corporations. So under Armor. Best Buy. Tesla SolarCity. Like, we're talking about real companies here. And you'll hear it because she talks about her kind of come up and you're going to hear direct reference to Elon, which is just a trip, I think, based on the scope.
[00:01:46.410] - Chris
I think her words when she left Tesla, she's like, essentially there was no one that was going to push me harder than Elon. So it was the time for me to branch out on my right.
[00:01:55.260] - Brandon
Yeah, it's pretty interesting. So all that to be said, we're very fortunate as listeners because we get to hear some outside perspective from companies that are winning at ridiculously high levels. And what she's going to hone in on with us is just these leadership tendencies, these behaviors, these human interactions that we have and how important us understanding the human element of those relationships and how she does work with executives and big teams like this.
[00:02:23.970] - Chris
It was good. We covered a lot of ground. I mean, this is definitely an episode that's more anchored in mindset. How are we thinking about our leadership? What are some things that we can do to get more in touch with what's going on inside us? Which of course has been a bit of a theme for you and I, so I thought it was really great. It was fun. To connect with yet another executive is kind of a kindred spirit moving in that same kind of vein, for sure.
[00:02:47.880] - Brandon
All right, well, before we get into the show, let's thank our sponsors. I'll take a jump at Liftify. You guys know we're massive fans of companies that can create positive traction in your company. And at the end of the day, Liftify is helping teams not only in the first seat win, but those that are certainly trying to make gains on that first seat in terms of how often, how frequent, and the quality and the type of reviews that we're getting. At the end of the day, these guys are that partner that can leverage everything from AI tools to automation to ensure that our consistency, our cadence of locking in and gathering those reviews for our company, they don't have highs and lows. It's this consistent cadence of going out and being or collecting these reviews for how our team goes out and takes care of our clients. And we've touched on this a million times. Google, at the end of the day, is going to prioritize their own system in terms of making you the authority or where you populate on a search criteria or a search string. And so the more that we can do to really invest and get that fresh, consistent, and lots of five star Google reviews, they're going to prioritize that.
[00:03:57.470] - Brandon
So we get the SEO benefits, we get the reputation benefits, we get the branding exposure benefits, and our teams get to see the stories they're creating with their effort and by them being aligned in what we prioritize as an organization. So the effects of this go well beyond just turning more revenue. So liftify.com, floodlight. Check it out. Do yourself a favor. It's worth the effort.
[00:04:21.130] - Chris
Yeah. And let's talk about answer force. So answer Force, what do they do? They provide real life call agents to support your call and taking your business. So whether or not you are a brand new company that's working out of a storage unit or your living room in your house or you're a scaled operation, we have multiple sites. You got full time receptionists and so forth. Having an outside partner that can help handle your call intake is a huge source of efficiency and can be a great tool for scaling up in your business. Right. I think a lot of times we don't take our call intake seriously enough. I think often our receptionist roles are just kind of an afterthought. We don't take it seriously enough.
[00:05:06.020] - Chris
Right.
[00:05:06.370] - Chris
And so what do we do when our receptionist is out to lunch? Well, we just forward phones to whoever are we handling that inbound customer with the same care?
[00:05:13.940] - Brandon
Of course we're not.
[00:05:15.050] - Chris
Right. So we have to approach our call intake with intentionality and discipline. It might be one of the most core functions in our entire business. How much money do we spend on sales staff and Google PPC and all the things to get that phone to ring, and then we often address it with such carelessness and disregard. And so I think having a partner like Answer Force allows us to put a system in place that our full time receptionist can follow, certainly if you have that. But then to make sure that when our in house receptionist can't take that call, that it's getting handled with the same intentionality and care, that customer is getting the same intake experience. We're collecting the same important data, so then our teams can carry out service to that person just as effectively as if our in house team had handled that call intake. So that's what Answerforce is trying to do. And they've got an interesting tech backbone that makes it really easy to turn on and turn off their service. Pay for as much as you need, scale it back down when you don't need it anymore. So it's great for storm and cat stuff, for scaling up our call response and then scaling it back down as needed.
[00:06:28.080] - Chris
It's a cool thing. It's worth it to go get a demo from Answer Force and see how it can augment your existing system 100%.
[00:06:36.050] - Brandon
CNR Magazine. Michelle and her team taking the world by storm. Golly talk about work ethic and drive. That team is grinding gears, but long and short of it. Friend of the business is what we've always said about her friend of the industry. To support the contractors, the service providers. She's all about elevating and leveling up the industry as a whole. Everything from the information she's getting access to, to the team members, the networking, the stage that she sets to make sure that we're hearing the latest and greatest and paying attention to the names and the leaders and the people who are influencing this industry for the better. So, CNR Magazine, if you're not a subscriber already, do yourself a favor and make it happen. And then leverage all the digital and media content that they provide on every platform that's out there. Everything from the lunch and learns to the podcast segments. I mean, she is making it happen, so take advantage of it. It's free intel, it's good intel, and it's stuff that can move the needle for us and our businesses. So sign up with them and get connected. All right, gang, let's get into this.
[00:07:45.330] - Chris
Welcome back to the Head Heart and Boots Podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:07:48.970] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead.
[00:07:55.690] - Chris
Man, I love this industry.
[00:07:59.030] - Brandon
Well, Angie, thank you so much for hanging out with us. We were doing a little yit yak in here before we got started on the old record button. I'm already pretty psyched about where we're going to go with the conversation. I think those that just went through our intro. Also see, wow. We've got a voice that's with us today that's been performing at a high level with some, let's call them kind of known companies like Tesla, SolarCity, Best Buy, some of those names that we've heard at least once or twice. And one of the things that Chris and I are just so keyed in on is hearing voices that give us insight on what, as leaders, are so critical for our success, our behaviors. And I can't think of a person more qualified to give us some guidance on that. So, again, hey, thanks for hanging out with us today. We appreciate you excited to be here.
[00:08:45.510] - Angie
Thanks for having me.
[00:08:46.520] - Brandon
All right, so to get into this, I think it's important that we just kind of set the stage as a professional, some of the things that you've been doing, and just for those that don't know. So my background with Angie is that years ago, her and I were part of a community that was helping coaches and consultants kind of lay the foundation for their organization. And one of the things that we saw from you almost out of the Gate, was just a launching star. So all that executive experience that you brought with you, you put to play in your own company, and you guys have absolutely exploded. And I just set that tone because a lot of our listeners are in that. They're in that expansion growth phase. They're trying to figure out what needs to be put into place to continue to win. And I just think you're greatly prepared to chat with us about that. But let's just get the journey. Talk to us about kind of what got you keyed in on this executive space and then how and what have you done with your business to kind of come to where you are now.
[00:09:43.960] - Angie
Yeah. So you teed in on something, Brandon, which is my past experience.
[00:09:48.250] - Angie
Right.
[00:09:48.570] - Angie
That got me to where I made the decision that I wanted to go out on my own and I wanted to help leaders on a broader scale. The common thread between Tesla SolarCity, which SolarCity was acquired by Tesla, which is why those two organizations became one, but between Best Buy, Under Armor, Tesla SolarCity, the common thread between those organizations has been hypergrowth. And innovation has to occur to keep up with the demands in the market, the changes in the market, the changes in how consumers buy.
[00:10:21.210] - Angie
Right.
[00:10:21.960] - Angie
And with that, innovation and hyper growth comes with a great deal of internal change. I talk about this a lot. There's two sides of change. There's the technical and there's the human side of change. Often, organizations get going on the technical, what processes, systems. SOPs do we have to land in order to keep up with the demands in the market to continue to drive ROI? And what we forget about is there's a human element to that change that has to buy into that journey and go along with us if we want to have success. In those years, 18 years in the corporate space, I went through 21 different restructures within these organizations.
[00:11:03.870] - Brandon
Wow.
[00:11:04.660] - Angie
And in those 21 different restructures, I saw the good, the bad and the ugly. From leadership.
[00:11:10.430] - Angie
Right?
[00:11:10.780] - Angie
How they hold themselves through chaos, through ambiguity. Leaders that were able to elevate themselves and elevate their teams through it, and leaders that would hide behind closed doors and ignore the fact that they've got to show up every day for the hundreds of people that they supported was for me the launching for when I had the opportunity, when Elon said, the energy division is going to go online and we don't have a need for you or your 400 employees that you are in charge of. I'd already been thinking in my next phase of my career, what is it that I was going to do? And for me, it was a no brainer. One. There wasn't anybody other than myself who was going to push me harder than Elon. And number two, I wanted to help leaders on a broader scale figure it out. And oftentimes leaders that were holding executive positions today, that leadership development. There was an expectation that we just knew how to navigate all of it without the resources, without the tools, without the development. We should just go get them.
[00:12:09.230] - Speaker 3
Tiger right.
[00:12:10.570] - Angie
Because we're missing that human element side of change and development that our leaders needed. And so that was the catalyst for me. I won't forget it because I was sitting at my kitchen table and I was thinking I had been coaching my peers for a while at this point, to say, when your time at Tesla comes to an end, what are you going to do? What's Next? And I had been doing a lot of reflection for myself to say, okay, I need to make that decision, figure that out. So before the opportunity for me officially came through a restructure, I had made that decision, started on this path, through getting my certification. All that while I was still working for Tesla. But anyways, yeah, that was my catalyst for launching this business.
[00:12:48.870] - Brandon
And that was kind of the starting focus for your team, too. Was that executive transition? Right? Because I remember early on that was a pretty hyper element of what you were keyed in on. And I know since then, you've continued to expand on what your team's focused in on. One of them. The leadership development. And then the thing I keyed in on that I know we're going to hear more about is the Executive life. Chris and I's excitement to get you on the show is we tend to be the softer side of the industry. Like we're the ones that keep wanting to bring up topics that are fairly uncomfortable with folks. And that executive life and something that we kind of touched on before we got recording. Is it's a whole person? And we're certainly going to dig into that as part of this interview if.
[00:13:29.510] - Chris
It'S okay for us to hang in this whole change leadership thing. One of the things that just pops in my head as you were talking, Brandon, is we in our industry when it comes to change. This has been true of many of the clients we've worked with and conversations we have at conferences and stuff like this is probably the biggest challenge and source of heartburn for our clients and everybody else is just this what we call desperation brain. Whereas you start to make big moves in your business and you start to recognize, like, we take all of our clients through a pretty comprehensive audit when we first onboard them to identify, okay, what's missing, where do the opportunities lie and where are we going to focus first kind of thing. And we identify these important shifts that have to happen in order for them to get where they want to go. And the first layer of change is just so hard for them. They're so afraid offending their downline, their team. They're so afraid of people hitting eject, not being able to find somebody to fill that role and meet that need. It's right, because the existing business still has to operate and function.
[00:14:36.120] - Chris
Like we're still on this growth trajectory, we're still doing this thing. Was that something you've encountered in, I would think, like with brands or I think the assumption that many of us would make when we're hearing about Tesla and we're hearing about under armor and these iconic sexy brands, right, is that all the talented people want to work there. And so you guys don't have that problem of finding people to fill roles. Whereas in our industry and again, I'm making an assumption there, I think this is the assumption that some of us have in our head. Whereas in our industry, it is really hard to find frontline people, it's hard to find general laborers, it's hard to find technicians, it's hard to find project managers, it's hard to find dang near everybody that we need in our business. And so this desperation sets in where it's like, okay, well, maybe we're not ready to make this change yet. This is going to freak people out and if people leave, then we're going to be worse off than before. Maybe it's better we just kind of slow our role here, you know what I mean? Getting over that hump, it's just scary.
[00:15:38.820] - Chris
Can you relate to that and how have you navigated that fear or helped your downline leaders navigate that fear?
[00:15:45.750] - Angie
I'll share a little bit about my background at Tesla and actually what I did, which might help. I'll share about some growth that we went through. So I led the sales team on the energy side and my partners were in operations roofing the installers that group, right? And my first big promotion with them. I was relocated to Florida, and we launched energy after some policy changes had occurred down there, we launched the energy division. So we went from zero to 200 sales representatives in a course of 18 months. And along with that, my operations partner, we worked together around we had to have the installers all of your frontline teams. We can sell anything, but if there's nobody there to deliver it and install it, didn't matter, right? And so we opened up offices which had all your frontline folks in it, from the permit coordinators to the guys and gals on the roof, right. Everything in between that. I don't care if you are an organization with an employee of one or you're an organization of 50,000, the number one most important decision you can make from day one are all people decisions, all people.
[00:16:59.750] - Angie
So when you're hiring, you have to look at not only do they have the technical ability to be able to get up on that roof and do the work that they need to do, but are they a cultural fit as well? That's really important. I got asked I was on a panel a couple of weeks ago with some mid level managers. They were the audience, right? And we're talking high in academia, a lot of scientists who had been in the lab and had been promoted for the first time and were now leading teams. And they asked the panel of leaders the most important decision, leadership decision that they make every day, and all of it was operational. And when it got to me, I'm like people, it's the most important decision because it could make or break your organization regardless of how small it is.
[00:17:44.600] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:17:45.300] - Angie
I will say that's the first thing when you're talking about growth is you've got to hire right. From the very first person you hire that starts. And then the second thing is you can hire as many as you want. So your comment about Tesla, for example, attracting people excuse me. Yes, tesla, because of the name, will attract people, retaining people through the culture that you deliver that's second.
[00:18:08.330] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:18:08.780] - Angie
So, again, the first two most important things are your people decision. People want to know that they are valued. They want to understand the role that they play within the organization and their individual role.
[00:18:20.900] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:18:21.150] - Angie
We all get up in the morning because we want to be part of something bigger than ourselves, and we all wake up in the morning because we want to succeed on whatever part that is.
[00:18:31.330] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:18:31.910] - Angie
But if we don't know what our individual role is and I'm talking about if you have a mission and a vision as a company, if it's the person that answers the phones, or I'll go back to my Tesla analogy. It's the guy on the roof installing the panels. They all have an individual role within the organization, making sure that our teams understand their role and how that role ties to the greater mission or vision of the company. That is oftentimes the gap, right, in which leaders fail to you got to take people along with you on the journey. They got to understand the bigger picture and the mission of what you're wanting to accomplish and they've got to understand how their role plays a part in that. So once you've hired the right people and you give them that, companies can come after them for more money. That's going to matter if they feel a big part of your organization and your mission and you can make changes. I sat with one of my leaders at Tesla one day and we'd gone through I mean, change was inevitable every week and sometimes it was by the hour.
[00:19:33.660] - Angie
You had to filter out, do I communicate this one or do I just hold on for a couple hours and see if there's going to be another change down the pipeline? Right. Anyways, and so I was talking with him and I had shared with him, he was two levels above me at this point. And we had gone out and I said, he asked me my opinion on some changes that were being made. And I said, listen, you can have a strong culture within a group, within an organization, within a team, and people will make changes because they believe in you and your leadership and the mission of the organization, even if there's broken processes behind it, even if there's chaos and ambiguity behind it. But if you don't have a strong culture, that's when you're going to get turnover because the chaos and the ambiguity is not worth it when they don't feel like they're a bigger part of it.
[00:20:21.180] - Chris
Well, in your view, how does a leader create culture within their team in that environment? Because you said all the buzzwords that are very familiar to all of us, chaos, broken processes, and that's just a reality. I mean, we experienced that in our growing consulting company and we see it in every team we work with is that change breaks stuff. It's uncomfortable. And a lot of times too, the first round of change, we didn't know what we didn't know. And like you said, wait 2 hours because there may be another change coming down the pipeline. I think all of us can relate to that. And certainly in our business when companies start to tune into where do we need to go? What's the next thing they start to get some vision is that not all changes are productive and teams can get really uncertain and feel destabilized. So in your mind, what are some of the core leadership behaviors relative to this conversation with Tesla? Like, what did you see that really successful managers and executives did to establish that culture? Where even in the midst of all the chaos, there are people who are like, I'm good, sally George, he or she's got my back and I trust and I'm just going to move forward.
[00:21:29.680] - Chris
How do you do that, in your view?
[00:21:31.540] - Angie
Yeah, that's a great question. So the first thing is we all have to understand that there's a psychology for people around change. And we all handle change differently depending on our experience with change and any past trauma that we might have related to change.
[00:21:47.350] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:21:47.590] - Angie
So we might have been part of organizations that did a really bad job at change before, been part of leadership teams that had handled organizational change poorly in the past. So we might have some trauma around that. But then there's also that other part which I said, which is our experience with change. I'll give you a quick example. I was working with a client who is in technology, and he's an EVP of an organization in the technology side of the business. And his CTO, he was trying to get him to understand that they had to make some change towards digital transformation, in his words, was beating his head up against the wall, could not get his leader to understand this.
[00:22:24.220] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:22:24.770] - Angie
So I started to ask him some questions. So how long has the CTO been part of the organization? 40 years. Worked at the corporate office all 40 years. And so my client, on the other hand, had immigrated here 15 years prior. His experience with change has been different and since he had come here, had been part of a couple of different organizations, their experience with change is nowhere near each other.
[00:22:48.440] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:22:48.900] - Angie
And so my point to my client was you can't expect him to just instantly adapt and embrace change. If he's been with the same organization, working in the same corporate headquarters for 40 years, he's probably lived in the same house for 40 years. His kids have probably gone to the same school system for 40 years.
[00:23:04.750] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:23:05.440] - Angie
Not the same. And so understanding from an individual perspective on our teams, their experience with change is important and because you're going to have people that are going to be motivated differently and buy in differently towards that change.
[00:23:20.350] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:23:20.740] - Angie
So understanding that psychology behind it first is really important. There's also another point under that which is we want to always honor what was right. If you look at the change curve, it's the same as the grief curve.
[00:23:35.010] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:23:35.340] - Angie
So how we process change is the same emotions as how we grieve someone that we lost. Now, the intensity is different, but the emotional curve that we go through in terms of denial and acceptance and moving to clarity is all the same.
[00:23:54.570] - Speaker 3
Yeah.
[00:23:54.890] - Angie
And so if we can understand that and take people with us on the journey through things like open communication I have a saying I heard a long time ago from someone I used to work with who said, in the absence of communication is hallucination. So if all the communication related to the change and the growth of the organization happens behind closed doors. And we come out and we don't address anything with our teams. What do we expect to happen? There's rumors that are going to fly. People are going to start making up their own stories in their minds of what's happening. And so communication and open communication is really important during those times. Those are the times when you're out working shoulder to shoulder with your teams. You're talking to them, you're giving them any bit of information that you can, and when you can't, it's okay to say, I can't share that, or I'm not sure, but I can find the answers and I can get back to you. So understanding the psychology of it, open communication and then be open, have an open door policy to allow people to come in and express their fears and their concerns.
[00:25:00.510] - Angie
We hide so much and we have to remember the other thing I would also share is take care of yourself.
[00:25:06.610] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:25:06.950] - Angie
So those four things take care of yourself. So when we're processing organizational change as leaders, we're also going through it, right? The difference for us is we have to show up for every constituent that we serve. And the importance of showing up for those people, it's not just let's say you've got an organization of 100, right? You've got to multiply that out to their average family, the average family count too, right? Because those people are going home and they have to show up for their kids. They have to show up for their significant other. So your impact as a leader is not just those 100 people that you manage directly. You multiply that out by a household of three and a half people, and that's your true impact.
[00:25:47.400] - Chris
But of course, we can only sort of take that posture when we step back as a leader and we see our people as people, I think so often we can slide and we don't even notice it, but we slide into seeing our people as employees or worse. We get to a level where we've objectified our people in a certain way, where it's like, hey, some people got to go. And I think sometimes, especially in those bigger companies, even just companies with 100 people or 60 people, you got somebody that has to go. I think one of our coping mechanisms as a leader is sometimes you feel like you have to almost dehumanize a little bit so you don't get caught up in the fact that you're having to let them go. And yet what I hear you saying is it's really important to stay tuned into that as you're going through change. You have to stay tuned into the fact that, hey, people are bringing this stress home to their family, to their spouses, to their marriages. That kind of presence is important for a leader that's leading change like that awareness.
[00:26:44.770] - Angie
Yes. I want to address that. And I want to finish this part of taking care of ourselves. But I do want to address the dehumanizing thing, because I think that's a really big factor, Chris, that is important, going back to the taking care of ourselves, because we've got to show up for everybody. We've got to fill our own cups, right? So being mindful of how we spend our time and the energy that we surround ourselves with is important. So there's things like, obviously, you've got meditation, you've got journaling. Those are really important aspects in leadership, and I think people view them oftentimes, especially executives. When you've got type A or an eight on an Engiogram, right, might say, oh, that's too woo woo for me. I can't do that. And I get that right from folks that I work with. But it's an important factor because your brain can only hold so much information, right? And when your mind is so full of the tactical day to day processes, what I've got to do, worries, fears, et cetera, what happens is it's too full to see the clarity of purpose. And to your point, Chris, be present for what our people are going through today because it's so bogged down.
[00:27:57.820] - Angie
And so when you journal what you're doing, you put pen to paper to something, you're moving it from your subconscious through your conscious mind, and you're getting rid of it, right? And you can come back to it, but it's not holding space.
[00:28:10.560] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:28:11.150] - Angie
So that's the first thing I would say when it comes to taking care of yourself. The other thing is, anytime you're surrounded with a lot of change and I tell clients this a lot like, what are you watching? What are you consuming? I watch the news all the time or whatever, and most times when you're going through a stage of hypergrowth, there's a lot of change related to it, and there's fear and there's a lot of emotion. You have to watch what you consume. And I have flat out told clients, TV, you have no business watching TV at this stage.
[00:28:42.960] - Brandon
I was just saying. Interesting. Yeah, definitely dig into that a little bit. That's a new perspective. I haven't heard this yet.
[00:28:48.650] - Angie
Have you heard the term negativity bias.
[00:28:50.720] - Brandon
In our loosely, yeah. You want to do an overview of it?
[00:28:54.960] - Angie
Yeah. So our brains, we take negative information five times over positive, right? So if I say to you, Chris, I really like your tattoos, you hear that once. If I say, Chris, I didn't like the way you gave that presentation today, you hear that five times, you replay that five times over in your mind.
[00:29:16.770] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:29:17.480] - Angie
And so when we consume content or information or have conversations with people that tend to go negative, all of that consumes energy and consumes bandwidth in your mind, right. And you're hearing, Chris, I didn't like how you presented that five times over and over. You're replaying it five times over in your mind. And so protecting your energy is the term that I loosely use with people. You've got to protect it. Make sure that the conversations you're having with people in the external world are productive. They're positive, right? And you don't get stuck in this vortex of negative thinking and negative conversations. And that's why I always say, turn the TV off. Because unless you're watching some mindless trashy show that entertains you, it's typically not positive, right? And so journaling or some mindfulness activities, protecting your energy and then taking care of your physical health is also really important because there's a direct tie between your physical health and your emotional health, right. If you're drinking or overeating because you're emotionally stressed, that's affecting your mental health, right, as opposed to going for a run or going to the gym and burning your anxiety off that way.
[00:30:31.370] - Angie
So those are the three things I mean by when I say take care of yourself.
[00:30:35.770] - Chris
All right. Headhart and Boots listeners wanted to stop here just a moment and thank our underwriting sponsor, bloodlight Consulting Group, as all of you. You know, Brandon and I, this is our passion project. Headhart and Boots is. But it's also a way more and more that our consulting clients find us and in effect, they interview us, right? Those of you been listening to Show for a while, you get to know who we are, right, what we're about. So if Headheart and Boots is valuable to you, one of the best things you can do is share it with your friends. And it's been incredible to watch just the audience grow, and we still get text messages from many of you about shows that you really like and impacted you. So that's number one. And please keep doing that. Many of you have been huge advocates of the show. We also just want to remind you, too, if you're a restoration company owner and you're interested in a partner in your growth, you want some help building out systems, developing your leadership teams, helping set up the infrastructure for you to scale and grow into the company that you're trying to build.
[00:31:35.040] - Chris
That's what we do. That's what we do is we come alongside restoration company leaders, we help equip them and we help support them in that growth trajectory. So if you're looking for that go to floodlightgrp.com, potentially, we could be a great match for each other.
[00:31:49.220] - Brandon
Another way that we really do serve our client base and our sphere of influence is through our premier partners. We work really hard to vet those folks that we believe bring a level of value to the industry, that it can really be leveraged in a way to have a sincere, positive impact on your business. We take that very seriously. The folks that we create, those kind of ongoing partnerships, that's not a check the box kind of scenario. We really see strategic alignment in the value that they bring we see value in the way that their leadership teams and their partners are developed. And we've done very sincere work of ensuring that these folks that we introduce our clients and our sphere to can actually create vetted value. So go check out Floodlightgrp.com Premier Partners and see if there's some folks on there that you can connect with and begin developing some other resources to support your growth and your business. Here's what I'm hearing from you so far, and this is really affirming, I think, of where Chris and I sit or have been giving far more consideration both personally in our own lives and then obviously how we're working with people.
[00:32:55.030] - Brandon
So a couple of things. One is that as a leader, when you put that mantle on, there's some things that we have to begin shifting into. One, what I'm hearing is we have to be prepared to give people out of our abundance, not out of our desperation. That's where that self care that you're promoting comes in, is we got to show up prepared to give our people our best and not just in words, but we physically have to track with what it takes for us to be in that position. And then the other big theme, and I'm only summarizing these again because it's kind of like when the teacher stamps their foot, right, when they talk about a certain item, this is that item. Like, if you're going to hang and get anything, come prepared to give out of your abundance. And then I think that second piece is we're leading people, and it's the people leading powers that we have to gain competency in. Like, skill set is great. The tactical stuff is it's baseline we talk about, like, if you're a professional getting paid for your service, there's a baseline you must hit to be a professional.
[00:33:55.210] - Brandon
Giving tactics, processes and procedures to our people is the baseline. But we have to adapt our human capacity, our leadership capacity, as it relates to people. Is that fair? Like, is that kind of a decent summary of where you've gone so far? Okay.
[00:34:11.140] - Angie
Yeah, I believe so.
[00:34:12.540] - Chris
One of the things that makes me think with regard to this self care piece is a phrase that Brandon and I have shared a handful of times, which is you can't, as a leader, lead others where you aren't willing to go yourself. So I think you made this statement you shouldn't be watching TV at this point in your life. I think sometimes we don't, as leaders, take this issue of self care and self growth and self awareness seriously enough. And when I say we, I'm referring to me. This has been part of my journey where I have this internal expectation, conscious or subconscious, whether I've verbalized it to my people or not, where I have high expectations for the people around me. And it's very easy for me to get into a place where I am aspirationally thinking about those things in my own life, or I'm saying that I am about this or, this is important to me, but I'm placing those expectations on others, but I'm not truly living up to them myself. And so you shouldn't be. Watching TV to me, is just kind of a good example of that. Right? It's like, how am I spending myself as a leader in the other 16 hours of my day?
[00:35:22.950] - Chris
What kind of person is that making me? And is there alignment between what I'm expecting from my people and what I'm actively living out, like, in real life? I think as a leader, one of the things that is tricky is the higher levels of leadership you get, the less visibility our people have into what our life is really like. You know what I mean? Like, so many of our meetings are behind closed doors. People don't know how we're really living. They don't know how we treat our family. They don't have exposure to all that stuff. And so we can almost start to create these two personas. One we go home to, and that's our reality. And then one is how we present ourselves to others. But I think what I've seen in my career is the more disunity between those two personas, the less effective I am in my professional capacity and the more miserable I am in my personal life. And I think a lot of leaders, in fact, we've had them come up to mean that was kind of part of this keynote that Brandon and I recently did, is people coming up and being like, yeah, I'm in that.
[00:36:26.680] - Chris
I'm in that. I have this version of me. I'm projecting outwardly, and I got this whole other thing happening in real life, internally, at home, in my key personal relationships. And so I love that TV thing just for whatever reason grabbed me because I think we can be so dismissive of those small habits. And then I don't know if it's a Buddhist phrase or whatever, but I've just been coming back to this my whole life. How you do one thing is how you do everything, right? And we make these little compromises. Like you say, it's just a fun little trashy reality show that just helps me decompress it's like, well, yeah, and probably a ton of your employees love just burning time watching trashy reality shows, too. Who are you trying to be, and what kind of people do you want to work with? I think we have to live that out first before we expect others. I'm vibing with that. I think to me, it's a self awareness and a self leadership thing that you're talking about.
[00:37:21.100] - Brandon
I think I have a question real specific to that that I just am really interested to get your perspective on is a major part of what you do, regardless of which service line or I'm not sure if I'm using the correct term, but whether it be career transition or leadership development or organizational change support. There's the head game with the leader. And so, like, talking about what Chris is referring to, that connection, getting them to understand the value and actually believing what you're telling them. What, from your perspective, seems to be the one or two most common themes that restricts an executive or a key leader from buying into the fact that I have to be this person all the time. I can't win. Being two different people, what does it take for you to get them to parallel you in that commitment? You know what I mean?
[00:38:12.190] - Angie
Yeah, I heard a couple of things there.
[00:38:14.260] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:38:14.580] - Angie
The first one was really what keeps them from getting there to begin with. And that's fear we all go through. What you're describing, Chris's? Imposter Syndrome.
[00:38:23.650] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:38:23.950] - Angie
I'm afraid to be found out. If people really know who I was, they would think I was a fraud. Imposter syndrome is wired in all of us. It shows up at different times and with different levels of right, depending on our roles and where we're at. So there's this fear we all have of failure. And part of that failure is, if I show up as my true self, will people really respect me? Will they like me? Will they do what I ask them to do? And oftentimes you brought it up. But childhood trauma is all led back somewhere in something our dads or our mothers or someone said to us along the way in terms of either how we were raised in our childhood or how we were brought up in organizations.
[00:39:07.250] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:39:07.620] - Angie
As we kind of grew and climbed the quote unquote corporate ladder, that, I would tell you, is the first thing how you get people there. It's understanding the core of the problem and then moving them past.
[00:39:19.350] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:39:19.970] - Angie
Because if you can get people to take just little action, the way to get through fear is through action. And that action can be as small as Chris. If you have a TV show that you're hooked on right now, go a couple of days without watching it, and you'll never remember that you were watching it to begin with after day seven, and it won't be part of your routine.
[00:39:40.770] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:39:41.370] - Angie
Those actions can be really small, but oftentimes we're thinking about the end game. We're thinking of, it's got to be this big grandiose thing that we have to do. And it's just the small little steps move us past the fear and eventually we get to that end game. But it takes time to get there, right. As a society, we have this instant gratification, this need to have our outcomes in front of us today.
[00:40:09.410] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:40:10.260] - Angie
And because we have that desire to have those outcomes, we hold back and we say, the time for me to go from here to there is too great. And I'm afraid of what's going to happen in between, I'm going to sit in that fear and I'm not going to take that first step. And so I've coached at this point a little over 500 execs, right, in the five years I've been doing this. And my own challenge for me, to be frank, Chris, I can completely resonate with where you're at, because there was a point in 2019 where I was like, what's my niche going to be? I really want to help leaders on a broader scale, but I'm not exactly sure what that's going to sound like or what that's going to look like. And towards the end of 2019, what I found is there was a lot of introspection that was happening among people that I was talking to, because we were on a new decade, right? So towards the end of 2019, that introspection was starting to happen. Then 2020 hit COVID people were doing a lot more of that introspection. Because when you're faced with mortality, right, you start looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, is this who I want to be?
[00:41:12.330] - Angie
Am I showing up as who I want to be? Right? And so business popped off. People wanted to make change, and most people would assume it was because of restructures and layoffs, et cetera, because of COVID But a majority of the people that I supported was because of this introspection that was happening. And they wanted to make a change because they woke up and they looked at themselves in the mirror and they said, I don't know who I am anymore and this isn't fulfilling. And I'm talking people who have been in industry and in their organizations for 25, 30 years, right, who wanted to make a change but did not know where to go, where to start, right? And so they'd come to me and say, I want to make a change. I want to say almost a year was very transactional for me, right? It was helping people go from one organization to another organization. And as things shifted in my own life, because this is what happens in coaching, right, once you open yourself up to all the goodness that comes with introspection and development, that starts to show up and reflect in your business.
[00:42:13.930] - Angie
And I thought to myself, it's a lot of transactional work. I want to be able to go deeper with people, because I was starting to see these themes of fear holding people back. Our identities are so tied to our job titles. When you strip that job title away, all of a sudden you wake up and you go, who am I, right? And so there was a lot of that starting to happen. But from a marketing perspective, people aren't there, right? You can't start talking to people about that stuff for the most part yet, because they're over here going, I just don't like my job and I don't know how to change it, right? And you start talking to them about identities and how they're wired and they're like, I don't know, I just don't like my job. Right. So for people to come, it was really about like, I'm going to help you transition your job. And I started to tell myself, I want deeper connections, I want to add more value in people's lives as opposed to just helping them transition from one job to another. And then you start to really get to know people and you start to go deeper and peel back those layers of where does this fear of change come from?
[00:43:12.990] - Angie
To begin with, where does this inability to act or take action come from?
[00:43:19.170] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:43:19.730] - Angie
Why is this desire to kind of hold myself in a closet when I'm going through things instead of showing up for who my team needs me to be come from? And when you start to peel that back and get a better understanding of that, then you can get to the core of the problem. I'll give you a quick example. I have a client who needed to make a change in her career. Lots of different reasons I won't go into, but she needed to make the change, right. Very quickly. Within a couple of calls, I got to the point of her mom was an executive and was laid off. And when that happened, her mom could not recover from that.
[00:43:54.280] - Brandon
Oh yeah.
[00:43:54.940] - Angie
And so my clients fear was really about if I step away and it was unfounded, right? If I step away from this job before I find another one, I'm not going to bounce back from that. And all the mental health issues that could come with that if that happens.
[00:44:08.900] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:44:09.300] - Angie
She was carrying that and so getting her to move past that and to see if you just take this step, how much other things in your life are you held back from right now? Because you're sitting in this fear of I don't want to become my mother and we all have this I don't want to become my mother or I don't want to become my father fear, right? Like there's a certain level of that in most of us. So that was my question to her. Boom. Yes, I'm resigning today.
[00:44:34.280] - Speaker 3
Done.
[00:44:35.080] - Angie
Right. The root cause of her fear was that and once you can unlock that in people's lives, there's so much magic behind what you do. I've got a client today after eleven years of sitting on a book that is going to impact I know this in my heart, millions of people because of the story that he is telling. Eleven years sat on it and within a couple of conversations hired a book publisher and we'll have this book published by the end of the year and it is going to help millions of people, right? But we all have this fear and it's innate in us. And once we can identify it, move past it, the magic that can happen in our lives is really powerful. I think I went off on a tangent and I'm not sure if I answered the question.
[00:45:15.960] - Brandon
No, it was a great tangent because sometimes I try to connect the practical a little bit because again, for most of us, this is a journey that we're probably in the more beginning phases of. One of the things I heard you say is there's a concern with us having too much of an air gap between where I stand today and this expectation that you've just communicated you're placing on me. Right. This new level of leadership competency this new level of responsibility increase in personnel that are reporting to you directly. Whatever and what I'm hearing you say, there's two things we need to be able to communicate with that leader. In such a way that we help identify not the presenting problem, but the real thing that would give them a lack of confidence or fear around leading that change. And then the other thing I think I heard you say, and this is where I feel like we really fail a lot as leaders is building a map where incremental steps can be taken to get to the end result. I think we feel at times we can communicate that person to that end result.
[00:46:19.530] - Brandon
And I think what I'm hearing you say is we're going to have to be more proactively engaged in that process. There's got to be pillars or milestones that we're hitting to go from A to Z. We can't just talk about it and then hope they land at Z. Is that so?
[00:46:34.880] - Angie
Yeah.
[00:46:35.340] - Brandon
From your perspective, Angie, what are you seeing? And then I want to get back under the surface again, but just practically those points on the map. Let's say, for instance, okay, let's give a specific example. I've got somebody who's been in the trades themselves. They're doers. They've worked with their hands, they've had project management experience. They do the do right. And now they're responsible for a staff of personnel. There's KPIs that they've been leveled, they've been told now your return on investment is no longer doing but equipping others to do. Like all these shifts. Right. From your perspective, what have you seen? Like the have to milestones are to go from the doer to a bona fide force multiplying leader. What do you feel like the minimum big steps that someone would have to look at and hopefully detail out to give that person that confidence in the journey?
[00:47:28.440] - Angie
Yeah. So I would tell you in those cases, the leader has to move from being that hands on executor to that visionary with a strategy. If they're a part of a larger organization, doesn't mean that they've got to have some big grandiose vision.
[00:47:44.300] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:47:44.870] - Angie
But it could be their own leadership vision. How do they want to lead and how do they want to show up?
[00:47:50.330] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:47:50.680] - Angie
Intentionality is really powerful. If I can identify who I want to be and how do I want to show up for the people that I am now in charge of and then align your actions with those. That is the first step, right? Because then all of a sudden you have some confidence about you and what you're doing. I see this a lot, especially early on in my coaching and also for my corporate time, which is a lot of technologists, right, and when you work with a lot of technologists, that group, because it's an expertise that they have, right, that they can do with their hands. And then when they're promoted because of that expertise, we just have this assumption that they're going to be able to teach and to lead people to be able to do what they did.
[00:48:37.290] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:48:37.780] - Angie
It's very rare that that is the case. And so that leadership capability, they become uncomfortable with how they're leading people, right, because they don't know who they want to be. So when you don't know who you want to be and how you want to show up, you can't really create a plan for then how you develop the skill sets to get closer to aligning to who that leader is that they want to be. And so they're a fish out of water. They're kind of just swimming around trying to pick up whatever little scraps of development that they can get out of this book and that book, or this article and that article, and they try to piecemeal it together and it never really comes fully together.
[00:49:15.890] - Brandon
They're not running with purpose, right. Chasing specific information for a specific outcome.
[00:49:22.390] - Angie
Yes, exactly. And what happens is then you lose trust, you lose credibility and you lose trust in the people that you are showing up for that you're leading. And once you lose trust and you lose credibility, it's much harder to get that back.
[00:49:35.780] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:49:37.270] - Angie
And this might be good for your listeners to look up, but there is a maturity continuum. So as we go in our career, if you imagine just a scale, right, a continuum, and you've got three points on the scale. Anytime that we are new in role, I don't care the level, you go to a new organization, you take on anything new, you start from the bottom of that continuum and you've got to work your way back up. Like I said, there's three points, right? There's a level of dependency that we all have. We're dependent on others for answers to our questions. Excuse me. We're dependent on others for knowledge because we're learning. And then the midpoint on that maturity continuum is independence. Now, everything within our four walls, so to speak, is clicking. We're more confident in our decision making. We've got the knowledge that we need to successfully lead the team. Our people can come to us with questions, to their answers, with a level of trust and competency, right? And then the last point on that continuum is interdependency. And interdependency is now when you can go out and start influencing outside of your direct team.
[00:50:41.790] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:50:42.430] - Angie
It's where people like you two, as an example, can go out and start inspiring and leading others within industry, even though you don't have any direct accountability or responsibility for those others.
[00:50:54.950] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:50:55.440] - Angie
Because you've gained a level of knowledge and skill sets and whatever, right. Whenever you start something new, you go back down to dependency.
[00:51:02.840] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:51:03.430] - Angie
And so if leaders can understand that, you're always going to start with this level of dependency, get a grip on who you are and how you want to show up, what knowledge you need to learn to closely align with who that so, for example, if I say I want to be the resource for my team, right. I want them to feel confident that I'm going to give them the right answers to the questions that they come to me with. You've got to make sure you have the knowledge.
[00:51:28.850] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:51:29.260] - Angie
Where do you go get the knowledge? Is there trainings you can take? Is there intercompany trainings? Is there external trainings that you can take? That's just one example. You've got to work your way up into that level of independence. Those action steps for people to take is going to be different depending on the person, depending on their experience with leadership and where they're at developmentally, which is why coaching and mentorship for me is such a big deal. I have my own coaches.
[00:51:55.630] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:51:55.980] - Angie
Because you're not just piecemealing things from different books or different articles together, you're connecting it based on you and your personal experience and what you need as a leader. Yeah.
[00:52:07.140] - Brandon
Love it. Okay. That's interesting. Okay, so I heard really kind of the big pillars are processing through the dependent phase, being specific about identifying what you need to learn so that you can move into the independent phase. Right. And then ultimately transcending into an interdependence. Is that the phrase you used? Yeah. And that's position where now not only am I contributing to my team or department, but my insights are now also having an effect maybe on peers, divisions or departments or parts of the organization or outside of the organization. I think we can shelf that one for now, the tactical, because I know Chris for sure and I want to get back into this topic before we let you go of oh, gosh. What is it that you said? You said inherited family trauma. So listeners, get ready. We're going to go back under the surface again. Do you mind just kind of opening that portion of the conversation? Remind us, what does that mean to you, that phrase?
[00:53:03.670] - Angie
So we all have a level of trigger points in our lives, things that are buried in our subconscious that we might not even know where they come from or we don't even remember the situation or the incident that might occurred that 30 years later, because. We haven't processed that trauma or that emotion shows up and manifests in different ways in our lives. Right? And oftentimes that comes from inherited family trauma.
[00:53:29.870] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:53:30.200] - Angie
So my personal experience with this is my mom passed away when I was twelve and we had a really rocky relationship from the time I was five until the time I was twelve that we never really got to heal because she passed.
[00:53:43.310] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:53:44.100] - Angie
And 30 years later, frankly, I'll be vulnerable here for a second. I was in a fetal position on my office floor. So buried in emotion, I did not know what it was or how to work through it.
[00:53:58.080] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:53:58.520] - Angie
It was just there. And for me to understand what I needed to do to be able to as a mom, as a business owner, as a human, to move through this, I had to start going, finally processing and getting deeper into what that trauma was so I could move past it myself and quite frankly, live my life. And this is I was already 40, right? So I came across I don't believe in coincidences, right? So once you put something out there, the universe, God, whatever you believe in, sets things in motion to help you work through it. And so I came across a psychiatrist by the name of Mark Woolen who started reading his book around how trauma is carried through our genes. And so oftentimes what happens is the trauma that we might be carrying and going through it could be from our own childhood or our own I call it corporate upbringing, right? Or work upbringing that we're navigating. But it also could be inherited from our parents, from our grandparents, from our great grandparents, right. Traumas that they have had and navigated through their lives that have carried over and how they have parented and how they've shown up, which then in turn just keeps the cycle going.
[00:55:09.270] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:55:09.760] - Angie
And we have all heard, seen either had people in our lives or experienced in our own lives where we have people that have been stuck in this cycle and the cycle eventually has to break.
[00:55:21.770] - Brandon
Right?
[00:55:22.600] - Angie
And how do we break that cycle? And I think that it comes from healing ourselves so then we can show up differently for our own children or our own people in our lives.
[00:55:32.680] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:55:33.610] - Angie
And my first step was understanding and coming to accept that my mom was not responsible for my mistakes in my adult life. She did the best she could with the resources that she had, moving from a place of resentment to acceptance to then understanding what are the good things that I got because of it. So I came from a family, I have five siblings. I was out of Minnesota as quickly as my career could get me out of there, right? And I will not go back. But what happened in that experience is I grew my career, right? I met my father of my children.
[00:56:09.540] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:56:09.830] - Angie
We never got married, and we since have split about seven years ago.
[00:56:13.500] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:56:13.940] - Angie
But there's all these things in my life that occurred because of that. I wouldn't have had the courage to do that if my childhood wasn't the way that it was. I get my love for road trips and adventure from my mom. Right, so you start to look at things differently in life. And when you can do that, when you can move through that trauma that you're either experiencing, or in this case, it was a combination of trauma that I had experienced that I was also caring inherently through my mom. When you can come to that acceptance and move through it, doors can open up. And I also then believe, and I've said this to people that I've coached, once you heal and once you experience that, then we have a responsibility to go and help teach and make that a part of our own story and be vulnerable enough to share it. And I'm still teetering on that.
[00:57:04.020] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:57:04.380] - Angie
To be honest, I teeter on how much I share and how much I don't share. But we all have a story within us that's meant to be shared. And Chris, you said something earlier. Actually, I said I wanted to go back to it. And this is, I think, a good tie of adapting human capacity and the alignment between where we are today and where we want to be as leaders and how we want to show up. And I think COVID taught us that there is a strong desire for all of us to have human connection. And even if it's teaching clients the most basic how to give your elevator pitch when you're sitting at an interview and someone says, hey, Chris, thanks for coming in today. Tell us about yourself, how you answer that question, ridding yourself of the corporate jargon and the stuff that we've hardwired into us from our time growing up in our careers. And just connecting with people is what we all desire now. Right. This nostalgia of going back to where we were before COVID and forgetting that all of this happened to today, we all want that and need that, quite frankly, by humanity.
[00:58:13.610] - Angie
We need that human connection in order to really exist and feel fulfilled. And so if you have someone in your life or you as a person are not if you're feeling this disconnect, then I would challenge to say you're not fulfilled.
[00:58:28.380] - Speaker 3
Right?
[00:58:28.760] - Angie
Because when you have that dissonance between where you are and who you really want to be, there comes this lack of fulfillment. Because if you're not bringing your true self to the table every day, then you're not doing the work in a way that either you should be or even, quite frankly, sometimes the work that you're doing is not who you're meant to be or what you're meant to do at this stage in your life.
[00:58:50.320] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:58:50.570] - Angie
Because I believe we outgrow organizations, and organizations outgrow us. We outgrow careers, and careers outgrow us.
[00:58:55.790] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:58:55.950] - Angie
It's just a natural part of evolution, right? Or evolving as humans. And so closing that gap is really important for all of us. And if you really want to show up in a way that inspires and motivates and builds culture and connect with your people and be present with your people, they've got to know who you are.
[00:59:17.440] - Brandon
I think one of the things that Chris and I have gotten caught up in quite a bit too, is we've wrestled with that is we just are in part of our age, right? Like, I'm approaching 47, but there's just this, like, I'm not really interested in doing stuff because other people want me to do it anymore. I'm just kind of fucking tired of it, to be honest. And so it's served as a bit of a catalyst to give me more bravery, to just say no to stuff more often and to say yes to the things that are more in alignment with who I am. And a big part of that is just growing more bold and showing up prepared to just be who I am. And it's not going to fit everyone, and I'm not going to be able to employ everyone in our organization because it's not going to work for them. There's going to be some personalities that just doesn't make sense. We're not aligned in the mission, but I think there is a difference in the way that I use energy to support our team or chase goals or go after objectives that we have in front of us.
[01:00:17.590] - Brandon
When more and more of what I spend my time doing and thinking about aligns with what I give a shit about, and that really is about me understanding me better. I think one of the things that Chris and I wrestled with earlier is wanting to be everything to everyone. Like, even as leaders, just in our own, like, Chris and I are very different in our skill sets. Part of the reason that we have a great partnership is I really am much more linear thinking. I'm a little bit more dialed in on here's, the steps, the process. He loves having that vision. He loves incorporating the dreaming. He loves looking out and saying, what kind of experience are we actually giving people that work with our organization? It's a different path, but when he and I stay in our own lane and we just really get to dig into what we're good at, the outcome of what people receive is better. So, anyways, all that to say is I would just want to encourage people that I think what we misread is that when you show up, like, you're saying, Angie, more holistic, more dialed in and clear on who you are, who you want to be, the team receives major benefit.
[01:01:22.690] - Brandon
But more importantly, you're going to receive the benefit, which in turn gives you energy to show up like that again tomorrow. And the day after. And the day after. Right. And so as much fear as there is associated with it, I think the miss, whatever interpretation we have is that people are actually desperate for you to show up and just be fucking like that's the part they're actually going to honor and respect because they're going to feel it, not just hear it. That's the space that I think that Chris and I have spent recently more time in not buying a you know.
[01:01:55.910] - Chris
One of the things that came up for me is you were asking those questions, who do you want to be and how do you want to show up? Right. Leaders either. We're always considering that. I feel like in some way, every Friday, for whatever reason, it's kind of my reflection day where I just have a groove there. And I feel like in some ways, I'm always asking myself that. The thing that came to mind was the book Atomic Habits by James Clear. And I really latched on to a concept that he talks about in that of relative to this whole who do you want to be? And I just love it. I've told so many people, identify a persona that embodies who you want to be. And I can't remember his example in the book. It might have been. Chuck Norris has a funny example he made in the book, or maybe that was something I invented in my head, but just this very simple framework of identify who you want to be. And if it's helpful to identify a real life persona, an athlete, a business executive or whatever, and ask yourself, what would that person do in this situation?
[01:02:59.160] - Chris
What would Elon do if he were faced with this dilemma? Or what would this person do with their morning routine? What kind of disciplines would this person put in place? I've just found that so incredibly helpful because sometimes when we set out to become a different person, we recognize that what got me here isn't going to get me there. It feels like you have to change everything, and it's just overwhelming. Like, how do I get a good sight picture of what this is supposed to look like? I know what my current habits, behaviors, disciplines are, and they're not sufficient to get me where I want to go. It can just feel overwhelming to sort of make those big shifts as a leader. And yet I've just found through that very simple thing, it's been really useful for me. And sometimes my question is, like being partners with Brandon, I'm like, okay, how would Brandon react to this? What would you know? So I don't know. I'm just curious if that's useful to you. I'm also curious too, is there an analog like that atomic Habits example for know as we look out to our team?
[01:04:04.500] - Chris
Is there kind of a mental model like that or a way as a leader that we can more effectively describe the change and give people kind of a mental picture of where we're trying to take them. That's effective. Does my question make sense?
[01:04:20.880] - Angie
I think so. I think the storytelling factor of where you want to go is important, right? So when you are clear about where you want to go and the direction that you want to take the organization, when you've got that story written out, I think, if I'm hearing you correctly, right, you have the story and then how you take them with you on the journey, right? And understanding that you might not have all the steps figured out yet, right? And that's okay. And it's okay to say, I don't have it all figured out yet. And by the way, I'm open to any suggestions and feedback that you all might have in order to get us closer to here, but this is where I want to go. And here's some of the steps that I think we're going to take that are important to take the humility around saying we don't have all the answers, but we're going to figure it out. And if we could all figure it out together, even better. But here's some steps that we can take to get us closer to where we want to be. And sometimes even those steps are just some introspection, right, and some digging in.
[01:05:22.570] - Angie
Or maybe it's more research or needing more understanding or having more reflection time like you talked about, Chris. Like every client that I work with, I tell them 02:00 on Fridays, reflect on your week, right? What did you learn and what out of those learnings are you going to use to shape how you show up come Monday morning?
[01:05:38.490] - Speaker 3
Right?
[01:05:39.200] - Angie
But sometimes that's just the step.
[01:05:41.440] - Speaker 3
Right.
[01:05:41.960] - Angie
For me, my physical health right now is one of the things that I want to take to the next level, right. And part of that is I don't drink a ton, but I like my occasional glass of wine, right? So I'm like, how am I going to best motivate myself to move through that and not want to have that glass of wine at the end of the night, right? And I love learning about our brains, right. I can geek out on the human brain all day long. And so I found an app called Reframe, and that app is teaching me about the effects. Alcohol has even just one glass on your brain, right? And so it's a very neuroscience approach to it, which I could geek out on all day long. Before I go for that one glass, I think about, what did I learn today about the effects on the brain? And that in itself, I'll go, I can skip it today.
[01:06:29.650] - Speaker 3
Right?
[01:06:30.210] - Angie
And so we all have those things that we can do to move ourselves past it. The reflection. This is another tool that I use with clients is get by the water. There's healing properties in the water in itself. And if you're feeling really bogged down or really unclear about the steps that you need to take or the vision and how you land that vision with your team to get employee buy in, go sit by the water, do some journaling, do some dumping of all the stuff that's in your mind.
[01:06:59.450] - Speaker 3
Right?
[01:06:59.940] - Brandon
Yeah. The other thing that kind of reminds me of we want to be really respectful of your time too, but I think one of the things that that reminds me a lot of is just this thought of prioritizing the way that we're thinking. There's just this common theme. This whole conversation keeps coming back to a more investment in being aware of how we are showing up. Everything applies the way we communicate to the team, the strategies that we deploy, what we're communicating to our team, all of it keeps coming back to this foundational element that clearly you've gotten traction with helping executives identify and it's just how am I showing up? What do I want to be, what am I going to produce? What's the outcome I'm looking for? And spending more time creating systems or communication or whatever to support that versus I think we over index on trying to figure out what we're going to say, but we haven't done the good work of understanding what the purpose of what we're saying or doing is going to be. So I just feel like there's been this really common thread this whole time and I think it's a lot.
[01:08:09.780] - Brandon
What Chris and I as a team try to draw people's attention to is it really all oversimplified? Comes right back to who are you? Are you paying attention to that question? Are you doing something with that question? And then as you answer that question for yourself more clearly, then what kind of steps or actions are we taking to come into closer alignment? Right. Or congruence or whatever that terminology is. So a couple of questions for you, Ange, and we should probably bring this one to a close. So one is what is the outer edge? What is the new thing that you feel yourself just both in your own personal development and maybe some of the things that are at the forefront of your working with clients on what is that one or two things? And then where do we point people if there is a real interest on direct, executive level, one on one coaching.
[01:09:02.340] - Angie
The one thing that I'll tell you that I'm most inspired by right now is helping organizations gain employee buy in through organizational change. Change is inevitable in the business.
[01:09:12.770] - Speaker 3
Right.
[01:09:13.220] - Angie
And what I have seen in both clients and doing panels and workshops is there is a great need out there for employees to have trust in their leadership team and for leaders to gain employee buy in through any kind of shift or change that they're going through. So that's the one thing. Two main places you can find me. LinkedIn is usually where I hang out, but then, of course, there is the website, which is Elevategs.com.
[01:09:40.940] - Brandon
Love it.
[01:09:41.530] - Angie
You can find me there, too. A link to book a call and just chat with me is in my bio on LinkedIn as well. It's in my profile.
[01:09:47.630] - Brandon
That's awesome. I got to tell you, I'm excited to reconnect with you. It's been fun to kind of watch you guys from a distance. Obviously, most of that done via LinkedIn. Just watching you guys just absolutely crush the gas pedal. And I've got more personal questions for you outside of this recording in regard to what you guys are building. But, Angie, thanks again for hanging out with us and bringing that perspective from outside on.
[01:10:11.540] - Speaker 3
Gosh.
[01:10:11.880] - Brandon
Get a grip, guys. Like, this human thing's important. Let's start investing in it.
[01:10:16.050] - Angie
Thanks.
[01:10:16.760] - Brandon
We'll probably talk to you.
[01:10:18.120] - Angie
All right, bye for now, you guys. Thanks.
[01:10:21.650] - Brandon
All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Heart and Boots.
[01:10:26.150] - Chris
And if you're enjoying the show but you love this episode, please hit follow. Formerly known as subscribe. Write us a review or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.
