[00:00:07.530] - Chris
Welcome back to the head, heart and Boots podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:00:10.970] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead.
[00:00:17.730] - Chris
Man, I love this industry. Brandon's really excited. He's really excited to be in the production studio this morning. So we are on location in Los Angeles. We'll just say Los Angeles area. And with Christmas in front of us and we're like, you know, we really need to lay down some material. I mean, we're always thinking about things. We've always got conversations and situations and stuff we're processing. So we've got a rabbit trails episode here for you. And I got, I got, I got a little. I got a heavy piece I want to. I want to dig into today. And also there's heavy. Yeah, there's some sales stuff. And I don't know, maybe we'll end up talking about Tesla a little bit. Brandon's got a bit of a passion brewing here. What are we looking at?
[00:01:14.840] - Brandon
That's pretty sweet.
[00:01:16.110] - Chris
What?
[00:01:16.600] - Brandon
No problem. And look, that's for full blown.
[00:01:20.370] - Chris
Whoa. Okay. Anyway, so here we are. So back here. Come on, let's focus. So we're going to cover some ground today. We've got our lapel mics here. We're chilling in a shop at one of our clients locations. Before we get into that, let's thank our sponsors, liftify.com. Floodlight. Great partners. To me, they meet the definition of the perfect vendor partner. Right. This is a function that you have to fill in your business. Either you and your technicians, your job file coordinators, everybody on the team is oriented around asking for Google reviews and getting Google reviews on every single job, or you need a partner like liftify. And there's other brands. Brandon and I have actually had experience with some of the other platforms that do the same thing. We were pretty unimpressed with the results that we got relative to the spend that we were putting out. And so we ultimately reverted back to just focusing on it with our technicians and we got pretty decent results. But ultimately, just with the nature of our business, it's very difficult to capture as many Google reviews as we ideally want to, to get the recency with our Google.
[00:02:39.800] - Chris
My business profile that lifts us up in the search result rankings that all of us are trying to get into. Right. And liftify, they preach a 20% to 25% conversion rate. So if you're doing 1000 jobs a year, you ought to be adding 250 Google reviews to your profile every single year. And if you're not performing at that level, you owe it to yourself to do a liftify demo. So go to liftify.com floodlight, get a demo set up with Zach or Nick or the liftify team. Their team's growing. And get that on your.
[00:03:18.670] - Brandon
And I, you know, kind of in the same light, same fashion is answer force. And obviously, all of us are looking for ways as it gets more difficult to bring in great staff, quality staff, and build our teams. We're looking for ways to outsource, to partner and make sure that our clients and our business can continue to perform at a high level, just maximizing the opportunities or resources that are available to us. And with answer force, they're your bolt on partner for incoming calls, for capturing that initial relationship with the client, making sure that we're gathering the appropriate information and pulling them into our ecosystem or our process in a professional manner. Everything from inventory spikes, weather spikes, personnel going on some kind of paternal maternal leave, our teams even taking breaks, or just us giving some bandwidth or some breathing room to our staff. This is an awesome way for us to expand, maybe even what you already have in place in terms of a really rock solid intake system. One of the unique things about them as well is you flex right as you need them, you pull in more of the resource, and as you don't, you can downshift.
[00:04:26.700] - Brandon
So that what we're spending for is efficient and is getting us the highest value. We, you know, talk to them, take a look. It's just like with lithify. Get in touch with them, have their staff show you and walk you through their program, through their process, how their technology backed and what they can do to customize a resource and bolt on to what you're doing to not only meet the demand, but enhance the performance of you and your team and what your clients experience when they first ring your number.
[00:04:52.920] - Chris
Dude, you like a bullet train this morning, bro. I'm in it. And it's only $375. In fact, I learned they even have a lower program. They have like, an entry level program, $375. I mean, look, I get it. If you're only doing 200 grand a year in revenue, maybe that's an expense that you can't figure into your business, but for everybody else, right? What an incredible tool to be able to pivot to when your receptionist is out on PTO or your receptionist is out on lunch, for goodness sake, to have a reliable call intake platform that captures the opportunity coming through that phone. Jeez. Right? Get on it. That's right. And lastly, CNR, CNR magazine, if you have not subscribed to CNR magazine. Go to their website right now and do it. The emails they send out are quality. They got their pulse on what's happening in the industry, what you need to know what technology is emerging within the industry. And that's to say nothing of the content that they're constantly pushing out on. LinkedIn. LinkedIn lives, webinars, all kinds of stuff. Michelle and her team are incredibly close to the industry, and it's a great source of value added content, learning and engagement.
[00:06:03.310] - Chris
So check them out. CNR magazine. And here we are. Okay.
[00:06:10.290] - Brandon
You said deep stuff.
[00:06:11.800] - Chris
Are you starting well, dude, I want to talk about. I want to talk about I'm sorrys and I want to talk about forgiveness. And don't stay with us, folks. Everybody's like, you're like, oh, man, I'm not sure I've got this in me today, but hang with me, because I think this is something that all of us, it's a part of our lives, right? We mess up. People around us mess up saying I'm sorry in some form or fashion. Like, this is a part of life. And I want to talk about it because I have a unique. Well, not unique, but I have a very specific perspective on it that's kind of been, I don't know, percolating in my head for the last several. So Jana is our creative director at floodlight. And we were sitting in the office and we had this chat, and I just thought, God, this is, I think, maybe important. My wife and I, we were involved in kind of a counseling program in our marriage. We've married 21 years, be 22 years in March, and we've had all the typical struggles in a marriage. And some of these I've talked about on the podcast just little.
[00:07:32.590] - Chris
If you're going to be married for more than a minute, it's freaking hard. So we got plugged into a counseling program, and one of the things that stood out to me was there were some patterns of behaviors and attitudes that I had earlier in our marriage that just like it was a long term pattern of behavior. Right. And when I got into counseling, I was really quick to see, oh, gosh, this creates a lot of anxiety in our relationship or pressure on my wife and all those things. And so I apologized, kind of, you know, gosh, I wasn't aware of this. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I had that attitude, that recurring behavior, all that kind of stuff. And in the midst of that counseling, one of the things that that counselor said was, you know, apologies maybe have some value, like, in a moment in time, just recognizing and acknowledging something's. I've done something wrong here, and I feel badly about it, but I'm sorrys don't fix anything on their own. And that really stuck with me. And they went on to talk about, just like with most situations where we've offended somebody or we've wronged somebody in some way, or we've mistreated somebody in some way, or we haven't met the standard in some other way, a lot of times it's important to circle back, maybe multiple times.
[00:09:05.060] - Chris
And I think that kind of offends us because most of us just want to, I'm sorry, and then move on, and that everybody's just supposed to move on. And I hear this a lot, frankly, in our business, conversations with clients and stuff like that, where there was some sort of trespass, somebody broke trust, or there was something that happened in the business, oh, I'm sorry. And then they just expect the other person to get over it. And I think the reality that I've seen in my marriage is it's really important for me to understand what it was like for my wife. It's really important. I think it's important for both people. And this is what we learn in the counseling, is it's important for me as the person. I feel really self conscious in this moment, because it's like, what kind of shitty husband was I? But both of us had ways that we were offending each other and not meeting each other, right? And I think both of us felt this, that when the other person just says, I'm sorry, and then expects the other person to move on, it's like, well, no, I need you to understand.
[00:10:15.090] - Chris
I need to understand the problem. I need to understand how you offended me and what was going on inside me and what that feels like in order for us to move on. And sometimes that takes a while. Sometimes that takes us circling back, hey. Checking in on that way that we used to interact with one another. And that pattern that I used to have. How am I doing on that? How have you experienced me lately?
[00:10:40.880] - Brandon
Yeah, there's kind of a couple of things that come to mind when you say that, and there's two, and I think maybe both of them are some opportunities for us to kind of dig in a little bit. One is that apologies don't make up for what happened. No, meaning apologies. They don't give you the ability to repeat the offense. Like, at some point, there has to be actual physical, emotional change to the behavior to the reactions to the way that you're carrying yourself. We can't just keep coming to the table after repeated behavior and be like, well, you know how I am. I'm sorry. So I think that's kind of partially what you're talking about, is that the sorrys themselves don't fix the situation. I think the other thing, too, that we see, and I've done this, is the apology without recognizing your liability or your ownership, the full impact. Yeah. Here's an example. I'm sorry that the circumstances made you feel that way. Well, you didn't take any ownership of what happened. You basically placed the ownership back on the person that's come to you and said that they were wounded, hurt, offended, whatever.
[00:11:54.740] - Brandon
Right. Well, I'm sorry you interpreted things that way. Right. I'm sorry that that was the perspective that you had.
[00:12:02.390] - Chris
Now, I'm sorry that you felt that way.
[00:12:06.300] - Brandon
That you felt that way. Right. It is this thing of you misinterpreted, and I'm sorry that you've landed on me as the cause or the course of that situation. So those are those two things I think I wrestle with and that I fail in. Like, that I can be the person that's using sorrys as an excuse for a repeated offense, and then I'm also the person at time is, if I don't really agree with what you're saying, I can say sorry, but clearly place the blame or the onus of your reaction back on you. And never really take ownership of my personal behavior.
[00:12:44.850] - Chris
Man, I'll tell you what. I hope I'm not tiring people out with the marriage references. Like, what does this have to do with restoration? But for me, there's so many parallels, right? The condition of my marriage affects how I show up to work. Right. All those things. But one of the most transformational moments that my wife and I had was my wife wrote in her journal. She wrote, like, two or three pages in her journal about something she was just really frustrated with and overwhelmed by in our relationship. And one Saturday morning, which is normally our time to get together and have coffee and sit and whatever in the morning. Instead, we were just sitting in bed, and I was like, okay, something's up. You know what I mean? Normally, we hop out of bed, we get up, and there's this whole thing, kind of a routine, right? And I was just like, oh, no, something's up. And then finally she says, hey, can I read you something? And I was like, oh, no.
[00:13:40.170] - Brandon
Here we go.
[00:13:41.080] - Chris
Oh, no. This is either a poem or it's a problem. And she proceeded to read this really deep, personal, just journal entry about how she'd been experiencing me and how it was like, how she was feeling and how it was affecting her. And she had some anxiety around it. And it was very hard for me to listen to. I've told you about this before, it's very hard for me to hear. And yet I could hear her emotion. I could see myself in what she was saying. I knew it was true, but it offended me. Like, I felt misunderstood. And all of these things started to come up in me. Fortunately, in that moment, this is why it was a transformational moment, is I was able to hang in the pocket while I was hearing these things and just kind of hold my ego at bay. And I heard her. It was like the first time I'd really heard her. And I understood how I had been affecting her in a number of different ways. I was aware of some of it. You know what I mean? It's like I was aware. She and I have these certain areas in our relationship where there's tension.
[00:14:57.860] - Chris
It's like minefields. Every marriage has that, where there's like certain topics that you just know, breed kind of some tension. And I think over time, hopefully as you're married longer, you start to remove the minds, right. But so I was aware of some of the things she was saying. But then I was hearing for the first time, like the real hurt and the anxiety and the heartache just around how she'd experiencing and just the downstream effects of that, you know what I mean? And I heard it, and it was a transformational moment because I finally connected the dots. I realized just how big of a role I did have in all of it. Just these mannerisms, behaviors, knee jerk reactions to things, attitudes, tone of voice. I was like, oh, shit.
[00:15:47.080] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:15:47.460] - Chris
You know what I mean? Yeah.
[00:15:48.290] - Brandon
It's interesting too, because I think one of the things that you're highlighting there, it makes me think of kind of a similar thought, or maybe like a parallel thought, is we often are approaching partnerships, relationships, downline, upline employees. All the things from this perspective where we feel like we're actually taking into account their situation for the sake of them. But most of the time, if we're really honest, the majority of the time we're just actually thinking about their perspective or their in our favor about us. How is it reflecting on us? How does it affect me? Right.
[00:16:25.180] - Chris
They're upset with me. They have a problem with me. I need to fix that and then we can move on.
[00:16:30.740] - Brandon
Yeah, about me, though, for the purpose of me.
[00:16:34.740] - Chris
Not that I know somebody's mad at me because I did or said something that offended them. So I need to fix the offense. When really there's a fracture in the relationship because of a way that I'm sowing into that relationship.
[00:16:54.640] - Brandon
Right. I think it expands outside of that. This is something I think is pretty easy to see in our young adult kids as they are maturing and kind of transitioning, and then it's less as easy to see in ourselves. But from this perspective of we look at it like social awareness or emotional awareness, you walk into a room and the idea in that is that you have the ability to empathize with those around you, meaning you are looking at the environment and you're asking yourself the question, when I act this certain way, when I approach things from this certain posture, how is it impacting the folks around me? And here's where I think the nuance is. It's not asking yourself the question, how is this impacting those around me? And then immediately pulling it into. From the perspective of how do they feel about me, how do they see me, how do they react to me? How does this get me what I want? Right? Which is what we are doing more often than we're willing to admit. But it's more asking yourself the question, how is my behavior or what I'm doing affecting them for their sake?
[00:18:01.930] - Brandon
How does it affect them in their role? How does it affect them in their success? Right?
[00:18:06.140] - Chris
What impact do my subconscious behaviors, my attitudes, my mannerisms? How am I impacting others for their sake?
[00:18:20.180] - Brandon
Yes, stop the loop there. But instead, I feel like we push through that and I do this all the time. I push through that, and then the next turn is back on me.
[00:18:31.170] - Chris
Our ego really quickly activates because we feel misunderstood and we start to defend ourselves, right? And in our defense, we do things like, but they're doing something that's making me or contributing to my behavior. It's a way that I can not take full responsibility, or I can divide up the responsibility in the matter, hey, I'll take responsibility for this. But the reason why I acted that way was because you've been doing this or not doing that.
[00:19:14.740] - Brandon
That's right. Yeah. So think about it like this. If relationships existed in a test tube, right, and you could control every element, I think we can agree to the idea that, let's say, back in a marriage relationship, or really any kind of relationship, if I spend the majority of my energy meeting your needs, you will then likely spend the majority of your time and energy meeting my needs, which gives me what I need and what you get. What you need.
[00:19:43.770] - Chris
Reciprocity, baby. Right? It's how the world works.
[00:19:45.900] - Brandon
But what we find ourselves doing. And I think that theory translates into behavior. Like, at the end of the day, if we have a conflict, we've got to work through something tough. I can't own your behavior. I can't own how you react to things. I can't own any of that. But I have 100% control over what I'm doing and what I'm bringing to the situation. So I think kind of what you're highlighting is that if I'm only taking partial blame, meaning I'm looking at it and trying to find all the ways. It's not true. It's not me, then ultimately what you've done is gutted your ability to do anything to change the outcome. But if you're wholly focused on, okay, I need to accept all the ways of responsibility I can here and then begin thinking through and changing behaviors or activities to get the result we both want. I think it's like kind of going back to that relationship test tube thing. If both parties are spending their energy again, thinking about how they're impacting the other person for their sake and they're owning that behavior, they're trying to raise levels of competency and understanding to make that a better and more effective result.
[00:20:53.710] - Brandon
They're going to draw that in others, and then we both end up getting exactly what we need out of the partnership, the friendship, the relationship.
[00:21:00.850] - Chris
And it's like the contract between us and others is I'm going to be that. And also in it, I have the right, I have the permission to ask for what I need as well. So when the other person is affecting me in a negative way, I have permission to bring that up and address that, too. The expectation, I think that's the social contract. The expectation is they'll reflect, yeah. Take it seriously on how and how I'm experiencing, how others are experiencing them. And there's this great loop. This is what relationship is. It's this reciprocity, this back and forth dialog of both people accepting full responsibility for the way they are impacting others. Right. And so, like my wife and I, it's been interesting because sometimes I'll catch myself when I'm getting ready to just say I'm sorry because I'm really eager to move on. I notice that more in myself where I'm saying sorry and I mean it, but it's kind of investigating what is my goal when I'm saying sorry. And most of the time when I catch myself wanting to go apologize to my wife or whatever, or my kids. I mean, I'm hyper focusing on my wife here.
[00:22:14.170] - Brandon
But you, it's a good example.
[00:22:15.530] - Chris
You or somebody else on our team or whatever, a client. We had a poor interaction of some sort or whatever. I'm catching myself and I'm saying, okay, am I just trying to kind of assuage my own soul here so I can feel better about myself because I know this person's upset with me or offended by me and I want to fix how they feel about me?
[00:22:38.690] - Brandon
Yes, exactly.
[00:22:40.690] - Chris
Or do I genuinely want to understand?
[00:22:43.250] - Brandon
There you go.
[00:22:43.960] - Chris
So I can avoid hurting, offending, frustrating, disappointing that person in the future.
[00:22:49.190] - Brandon
That's good.
[00:22:50.470] - Chris
So it comes back, and I think we talked about this before, that hebrew term yada. We all want to be known, and we want to know others. There's something important about us understanding versus just trying to fix and move on.
[00:23:05.740] - Brandon
Right? Yeah. Like, silence the moment. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's my fault.
[00:23:12.250] - Chris
The big question is, because I would not have had a frame for this until we went through that counseling experience. Now the question is, okay, well, how do you reconcile, like, how do you move on? And what it started to sound like with Kara and I is, hey, babe, I didn't feel good about that interaction you and I had. I didn't feel good about that interaction you and I had last night. I don't feel great about how I acted. Like, my tone of voice, I felt pretty pissed off, and I feel like I just wasn't in control. You know what I mean? What was that like for you?
[00:23:52.650] - Brandon
It's good.
[00:23:53.690] - Chris
And then listening and then being like, I appreciate that. I hear you. I don't want to be that way. Anything else, babe? That was kind of going on inside you during that whole interaction, right? Investigate. In some ways, it's almost informed the way I sell now, too, because it's this principle of, I want to dig in and understand. You know what I mean?
[00:24:17.080] - Brandon
Yeah. I think here's another element to add to this, and by the way, when.
[00:24:22.470] - Chris
I'm upset with you, dude, you and I, we have never.
[00:24:25.830] - Brandon
I think everyone needs to know that you never get.
[00:24:27.820] - Chris
You just cut me off. I'm starting to feel something right now. But the thing that's inside me when we're upset with somebody, like, when we feel offended, is, I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I can think all of us have that. I want you to understand why I'm offended. It isn't even so much that I don't ever want to be offended again. That's not fucking real.
[00:24:52.400] - Brandon
Right.
[00:24:54.110] - Chris
I want to be understood. I want you to understand where I'm coming from so we can be aligned, we can be together. I want to understand you in the same way.
[00:25:07.060] - Brandon
Well, and I think what you're hitting on, see this is that piece again, like, going back to what can we own if we just hang in that stance of, I need you to understand why I feel this way or why I acted this way or why I reacted this way. It's important. We do need to communicate that because that paints the rest of the picture so that we're on the same page. And however, you can't force the other person to want that. And so I think, again, it's like, just, what can we control? What can we be accountable? You can be the one that is genuinely curious about the understanding the other person. And the hope is, if it's a mature relationship and we are aligned and we want a similar outcome, whether it's right in the moment or not, we should begin to see this behavior grow of two people seeking to understand the other person. And when we do that, we're going to get what we want. But I can't force you to be curious about my circumstance and vice versa, right?
[00:26:02.770] - Chris
100%. And that's the awkwardness of relationship. And I think we've been talking this whole time about marriage, but I mean, think about the application in your own business. Oh, man. With your business partners, with your leadership team, with your technicians. It's like, what if? And I think this is what you and I are so driven by because we saw it, we applied some of this stuff. Like, we tried to bring this into the business and this awareness with our team. And just how beautiful of a picture is it right when we can start to teach these things to our technicians and if it can start over time for them to process the relationships around them and the offenses, because we're always going to be offending each other, especially. I mean, in some ways, especially in this business. Yeah, you know what I mean? This was supposed to be a rabbit trails episode, but we just spent the whole time on this pocket. So, anyway, I hope this has. It is what it is. So that's what we talked about today. Till next time. We'll be back with another episode. Give us your feedback. Right. When you hear episodes that resonate with you, send Brandon I a shoot us a LinkedIn DM.
[00:27:09.890] - Chris
Find us through floodlightgrp.com and shoot us an email. It's encouraging and it helps just build our confidence to keep sharing sort of on this level of these sort of things. So that's right, tell your friends about it. Text the link to one of your team members, share it. Otherwise, we'll see you on the next one.
[00:27:28.650] - Brandon
All right, everybody. Hey, thank for joining us for another episode of head, heart and boots.
[00:27:33.080] - Chris
And if you're enjoying the show or you love this episode, please hit follow. Formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.
