[00:00:00.250] - Brandon
Hey, everybody, thanks for joining me for another episode of Headhart and Boots. You will notice if you're watching this on YouTube to my left, that I am partnerless today. So this is a solo show or a really great guest though. An interesting guest, veteran in the house, which is always fun. Obviously, based on my background and my connection to the military, it's always fun to share some time and experience with not just a veteran, but a veteran that I respect and clearly somebody that's super capable. So before we get into the introduction of Rod and kind of a brief on his background, I just want to take a couple moments as usual to thank our sponsors and our partners. Obviously, without them we wouldn't be able to do this show. And as you guys know, it's a labor of love, but it's also just a really great opportunity for us to share some insights and perspectives with the industry at large. So first, foremost, I want to thank liftify. As you guys know, Liftify.com just laser focused on helping you and your teams dial in your Google review process to ensure you're just getting lots of five star Google reviews, that you're getting them often, and that you're getting them consistently.
[00:01:07.390] - Brandon
All the teams that we've worked with that have adopted liftify as part of their process have seen massive gains. Again, that team producing somewhere north of 20% to 25% participation and return on those Google reviews. And that obviously just skyrockets our SEO activity and our natural organic rankings. And at the end of the day, it's really fun to be able to show our teams how they're winning and we're being able to recognize them for that. Our other partnerforceforce.com, floodlight, as you guys know, it is mission critical for us to capture the attention and hold their hand and do an awesome introduction to somebody meeting our team for the first time. And all of that often happens when they call in with that immediate need. And so with a call support team like Answerforce.com, their ability to customize that call intake process, to align that with what is happening naturally within your organization, ensuring that that handoff is systematic, that it's consistent, and that it's professional. So it's just so mission critical. Don't leave that call intake process to chance. Make sure that we're doing something that makes it consistent and awesome so that that first experience to that prospect or that client sets them off on a really solid footing with you and your team.
[00:02:29.440] - Brandon
And obviously there's a ton of different ways for you to leverage a partner like that covering certain types of extended leave, covering us in storm surgeon events or cat events where that call intake just spikes a lots of real good reasons for us to partner with a team like Answerforce. And one of the coolest things about them, as you guys have heard us talk about, is the fact that you just tune it up and tune it down based on your need. There's no long term contract where you're just spending adignauseum without seeing the benefit or that you're just stuck in a pay window that doesn't actually match the need of the business in that moment. And so another highlight there that we like to pinpoint. And last and certainly not least, our friend Michelle over at, you know, as our premier media partner, she's just been a great friend to us. She supported our team in so many really tangible and great ways and honestly that just translates to the industry. We always make the joke that her team is just a friend of the business, a friend of the industry, and it's true. She really does see this as something where she's playing a major role in giving us up to date information, keeping us in the know and keeping us, or I guess should say continuing to provide, sorry, some really great benefits to our teams and our team members.
[00:03:47.100] - Brandon
So again, CNR magazine guys get signed up, make sure that you're following them and their team and all the media relevant to our industry that they pump out on a consistent basis. Okay, guys, so Rod Cruz, Trifecta Growth Institute is the name of his organization. At the end of the day, this man is a 20 year special forces veteran. Obviously there's so much that we can correlate there in terms of what someone like this brings to the table and how the conversation can benefit you guys as the listener. But not only did he have a robust career in special operations, but then post that he's done everything from big government contracts to oil and gas company projects and support overseas as an independent defense contractor. And then ultimately he had a hugely successful restoration company that really was identified as a top tier organization, not just in their service delivery, but their kind of people that they had in their roster and how they took care of their people. So let's get into it. It's going to be a really fun show. We're going to dive into some elements that are kind of centered around the vet community and vets in our industry, but it applies to organizations as a whole.
[00:05:00.820] - Brandon
So stick around and let's get into it.
[00:05:10.370] - Chris
Welcome back to the head, heart and Boots podcast.
[00:05:13.150] - Brandon
I'm Chris and I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead.
[00:05:20.730] - Chris
Man, I love this industry.
[00:05:24.150] - Brandon
Rod, my man. Thanks for joining us, dude. I know you're a busy guy, and of course, I'm more partial to you because of your vet status. So I've been looking forward to having a chat with you for a long time. So thanks again for hanging out with me today, man.
[00:05:38.220] - Rod
Yeah, likewise, Brandon, for sure. So I appreciate you having me on the podcast today, and I've been looking forward to this as well. Let's dive in.
[00:05:46.460] - Brandon
Let's see where we can go. So, a little backstory. So you and I just kind of, almost by happens, chance, have kind of bumped into each other, so to speak, on LinkedIn. I've been seeing you and watching what you and your team have been working on and creating. And then, of course, I always key in on people when they have certain backgrounds. Yours is one of them. And so we'll talk about that a little bit together as part of our time. But you had connected with me in regard to a program that you were working on in regard with veterans. And so what I was thinking we could do just really briefly, is just kind of highlight that for us. What it was that you've been working on, something that you just experienced firsthand. I just figured we'd share that with the group and throw that out there and see if there's any connection. And then I've got a few things I want to dive into so people can get a better idea about your background.
[00:06:33.610] - Rod
Sure. Yeah. When I reached out to you, I saw that you were a veteran as well, and we'd been bumping in a couple of times. I think we were even at the core conference, but we didn't get a chance to connect at that time. But one of the things that we're supporting is the veterans and different programs within that. And one of those is a play called last out that was written by an SF brother of mine named Scott Mann. And it's really a powerful play. And Gary Sinise foundation picked it up last year, and they were in over 30 something cities. And it's really about telling this story of an eulogy of a Green Beret and all the things they had to deal with from family to the job to being overseas and that. And so he's using that to, that play is used for storytelling, and a lot of veterans have some good stories to tell, and they trying to get some things off their chest. And that's one of the things that play does, and the 2024 schedule has not come out this year, but it is a very moving play, and it really connects and tells a good story to those civilians more than anything else, who have never served in the military and what kind of challenges that military people had to deal with overseas.
[00:07:50.070] - Rod
Yeah.
[00:07:50.790] - Brandon
The thing I kind of picked up on, you were describing it yesterday. We were having a conversation. You were describing your experience, actually watching it, how it really did a good job of kind of connecting the different perspectives of those. Right. The families, the vets themselves, like these multiple stakeholders, if you will, that are engaged or in this sphere of relationship around this veteran. And so that really was interesting to me. So it makes total sense that if a civilian, whether you be a partner, spouse, family member or maybe a potential employee, man, it sounded like participating in that and watching that could really give you a lot more clarity about that particular person in your sphere so that we could all do a better job of supporting them and understanding them.
[00:08:34.930] - Rod
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even here, thinking about it, when I went to the play for the first time, it's the chill bumps you get with it because it does connect a lot of dots. After the show, there's a piece where they allow people in the audience to be able to share what they felt during that play. And one that resonates with me really well, is a guy got up and he says, you know, he goes, I came to this last night with some buddies of mine. We had no idea what it was going to do, but it moved me so much. I've got 20 of my family members here with me right now and people that I work with of because this play tells them what I've been trying to tell them for 20 years.
[00:09:14.310] - Brandon
Wow.
[00:09:15.060] - Rod
And I was like, man, that is huge. And then you just hear that story after story after story from someone else, and then you've got civilians there. And there was one civilian said, we hire a lot of veterans. And, man, this is so enlightening about how much they can handle and how much. Because you know as well as I do from in the military, the difference between a civilian job and a military job is you don't have defined parameters of what you're doing for your duties. A lot of times, it's what needs to get done is what you're doing with it. So huge benefit for people that hire veterans and bring them into their organization. I think a lot of times they don't maximize that strength to their ability even well.
[00:10:00.670] - Brandon
And I think that's a great kind of some foreshadowing for today's Chad is you and I talked about wanting to dive into that a little bit. The value of veterans in our industry specifically, and what we can do to take better care of them if they're already on our team. So we're certainly going to dive into that, and I think there's going to be a lot of pretty meaningful pieces there for people to pay attention to. One of the things I just want to do right out of the gate, and again, I know you're a professional warrior, and so I know you're not looking for the limelight on this, but I think it's valuable for people to understand your background before we get into some of the pieces that you and I want to talk about, because it just validates why your opinion matters and why your voice today makes a lot of sense for us all to pause for a moment and pay attention to as part of that kind of to set the stage, is you and I were just talking about this really interesting thing that happens when we look at veterans and we watch things like movies with special operations teams doing what they do, and they're successful at these unbelievable odds.
[00:11:02.200] - Brandon
Everything's stacked against them. They don't have the tools and resources right. They're taking over objectives with dental floss and toothpicks, and I think we missed the greater picture, and that's under the surface. There was so much work and development and prep that goes in to help make sure that a team can be successful when things don't go the way they planned. And that obviously fits well for us as business leaders and business owners, and so we're going to get into that. So, anyways, man, I'm sorry. Why don't we take us back? Dude, what did it look like as a young man, when you first got into the military and just kind of walk us through that military career so everybody has some insight as to who you are and what you're bringing to this conversation.
[00:11:43.730] - Rod
Sure. I grew up in Tennessee. My dad was a farmer and a truck driver. So hard work was never a shortage in our family. And when I joined the military, hell, I thought it was a vacation. I mean, I thought it was easy. You get to sleep in 530 and you get to eat at certain times. So to me, the military was kind of easy. But as I continued my career in there, I was always looking for more. And I joined SF after three years or so in the military, special forces. And I wrote an article here recently about recruiting for qualified professionals, and special forces gets it done pretty well, and whenever I joined it, I had no idea what I was getting into, but I knew it was something bigger and it was special and it was expertise. And so when I joined it, I was an enlisted person, and I did that for about ten years before I switched over and became an officer. And then I went to military intelligence and then came back into special forces. And we were always deployed eight to ten months a year into another country.
[00:12:52.310] - Rod
We were always working at the strategic and operational level with other countries. Mainly all of our missions were authorized by the secretary of defense. There's usually only twelve of us. We're operating out by ourselves. We don't have a big support. We're not told a lot of things to do. We have some objectives we're trying to do and some goals we're trying to meet. And then we're also setting the stage. It's not a short term victory. We're setting the stage for long term relationships, long term advantages that we can do, alliances. So when the need comes in to something like an Afghanistan or know it's not the US by themselves. And so there's many different missions that we did. A lot of people think special forces, they think it's just combat, but in reality, that's a very small percentage of what we do. Even when we're not engaged in some type of conflict or war, we're still out there developing and developing different areas of the world. So that when it does come time, we have those strategic relationships that we can lean on. And to me, that kind of resonates with being like a business owner or in stuff we do today outside that I do today outside of the military.
[00:14:10.270] - Rod
So for me, it correlates a lot to what I do today. It's driven me a lot of who I've become with businesses and influencing people. And we have a saying in special forces where we want to win the hearts and minds of those we're working with. And we also have a culture that we want to create. And it's one of those things that it's so good for me. Coming out of Tennessee as a country farm boy and truck driver, son of a truck driver, and then going into an organization like that, that opened my eyes to the world. And after being in about 40 something different countries, and you see the differences in cultures, you see the differences in a first world versus a third world country, and then how individuals in those countries are suffering. And then you come back to the states and you hear it all the time. These first world problems we have, it really is not an understatement. It is the truth. It is a first world problem we're having opposed to a lot of people in other countries that are having some major issues.
[00:15:14.770] - Brandon
There was a couple of things that you tagged there that I want to dig back into. And just to kind of set the stage, there was something really interesting when you described your entry into the SF or special operations, was this, you saw out of the gate, this was something bigger than you, that it was something special. There was a bit of fomo related to it. Right. Not everyone's going to make it. And I think what's interesting there, I'm setting the stage, is there's something that we can do with our organizations. When we build them in such a way that we do what we say, we're consistent and we support our people in the right way, we can give that impression of our companies as well. And what I think is interesting about that is that I don't think after today's conversation anybody would question whether or not you would bring value to their company. And so I'm thinking to myself, hey, what attracts really phenomenal people to do hard things? It's what you described about how you looked at the special operations from the outside. And I think it's a testament to us as business owners and leaders is what are we doing to create an environment like that so that we attract the guys like you and gals, like others that want to go work for an organization where they know it's bigger than them, that it's special and that there's something that they can participate in.
[00:16:32.160] - Brandon
Before we get there, though, can you just, and again, I'm not asking for operational information. Can you just highlight two or three of those key deployments or conflicts, I guess, that you had participated in as part of your career just to kind of help establish some context for folks listening?
[00:16:48.830] - Rod
Yeah, like I said, I've been to numerous countries, central South America. I've been almost all those except for two. That was kind of our area of influence. I speak Spanish. I learned that in the military then being gone 810 months a year, you're able to operate in that aspect, in that culture. So, I mean, I'm sure you've heard of Colombia, Venezuela. Those are El Salvador back even when they had the coup going on back in the early 90s, Columbia big in the mid ninety s and transition that over from the FARC, Pablo Escobar, those kind of things. Then that was kind of the above. We moved into Afghanistan or Iraq. And those pieces, been to those, been to several other countries surrounding those to be able to do things. Been to Afghanistan numerous, numerous times, both while I was in the military and then even after I started a company, after I got out of the military, going back into there from a different perspective as a defense contractor, both there and in Iraq. And then I retired in 2009. And that was a big transition that you go through after being there for 21 years.
[00:17:59.200] - Rod
But I think you hit on it too, the attraction to that and why I stayed so long, because even when I do public speaking and I've been in a couple of conferences and I talk about it, I asked people, I said, how many of you like going to work today? How many of you like really going to work for the company you're doing, you're working with today? A lot of people raise their hands and I'm saying, really? Come on, do you really enjoy going to work? And then you'll see some more hands come. Then I said, well, for me, I've always had the opportunity and the benefit of being able to go to work because I really enjoyed it. And even when I'm in Afghanistan and I know that today that there's going to be people out there trying to kill me and shoot at me, I still enjoyed going to work. And I ask, I go, why is that? I mean, who is this crazy guy? That is okay, I'm really looking forward to going get shot at today. And they all kind of look at me like, yeah, man, you're kind of crazy.
[00:18:57.530] - Rod
And I come back to it and I said it was the culture, it's the people, it's the guys to my left and right that I'm there with fighting for. And it's our goal of what we're trying to achieve. And I correlate that back to business. And when you look and I'll correlate it back to my special forces. If you have an organization that has that much of an impact on you that you are willing to go in any kind of circumstance, then that's what you should be striving for. And every organization, every company I've worked for or every company I've owned, that is what I try to create as a culture. I want that same type of culture I had when I was on a special horses 18 that everybody wanted to go to work. Everybody showed up even when they're tired, hungry, cold, wet, whatever you want to call it. And it wasn't about me. It was about everyone else that was counting on me to be there. It was having that reliability and also being dependable. That's a huge deal.
[00:19:59.170] - Brandon
No, I think you're hitting something on the head. Sorry, I kind of chopped you off there. Hey, is it okay some of these questions I may ask, and if it's not appropriate, just let me know and we'll cut. But can you describe the difference? Because you made the comment a team, there's differences in the way that teams are deployed and used.
[00:20:17.760] - Rod
Right.
[00:20:18.450] - Brandon
Just because you're SF doesn't mean everyone's the same. Can you just give us an understanding of what that meant specifically? That you were a part of an A team?
[00:20:25.240] - Rod
Yeah, sure. So a special forces a team. I mean, I'm sure you guys all saw the movie, right? The tv show, but it's not that. And I'm sure every saw Rambo. And it's not quite that either. Special forces a team is twelve people. Twelve guys, back when I was serving in that piece of it. And you have a commander, you have an assistant commander, which could be like a business owner or their general manager, executive leadership. Then you had a team sergeant, which is kind of your guy that is making sure all the stuff is taking place. It's your integrator per se. And then you have an intelligence nco there who's big on trying to get intelligence for you to be able to develop your missions and create your operations. And then you've got two weapons guys, you've got two engineers, demolition experts as well. They can build business, they build bridges, they build schools, they can build hospitals. They do all kinds of stuff. Amazing people. I was an engineer, by the way.
[00:21:24.680] - Brandon
You're a person to it.
[00:21:26.320] - Rod
Yeah. Little bias there maybe. And then you've got two communication specialists, because you can imagine if you're overseas, operate in the jungles or in the desert, you got to be able to communicate. And then you've got two medical person on it. So it's a twelve person team, very tight knit. And to be able to be on that, they have went through some extensive training and professional development. And that is what makes them so good because they have been trained and they've been invested in throughout. The training itself is over. I think for some people it's over two years long for medics. And you go through this selection process, which is about 30 days or so. And like, when I went through, it was like 569, 572 of us that went through, and 69 were selected after that. 69. Then you get divided up to go into your training. And out of that 69, seven of us made it.
[00:22:16.430] - Brandon
Jeez.
[00:22:17.010] - Rod
So the attrition rate is pretty high.
[00:22:19.280] - Brandon
There pretty high. From 560 to seven. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty.
[00:22:24.000] - Rod
And then from there you finish your training and then you go into this a team, which is what I was explaining, and that a team is a tactical operational element. They are being used, but they're used strategically. It's not like being a regular military or a regular organization. You're a highly, highly developed and strategic asset that's being used. Then you have other ones that you have what you call your b team and your c team and those are the ones who support them while they're gone. And sometimes even the b team will deploy things like in other areas and that's a company level. And then you have your battalion level, who has all your different other logistical and support elements in there supporting them. And many of those are special forces guys that are taking a break. But there's also a lot of other soft skills that are incorporated into that that are not. Special forces guys have been through the training but they are supporting special operations.
[00:23:19.530] - Brandon
Yeah. The reason I wanted to highlight that is that under that a team, and forgive me if I use some of this stuff incorrectly, the idea is these are the teams that are in the world operating behind often in very dangerous situations. You're the guys deploying, let's put it that way. You're the ones on the ground actually strategically operating in field. And so I just wanted to draw a connection for folks to that because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around that because they're just not exposed to it. But one of the things I want to just kind of hang in for a minute is describe to man like, because there's an interesting component when you guys get deployed. One of the other things I think that people don't connect with the special operations group, especially SF, is you often are going in and building relationships with the local population. The reason I think that's kind of an interesting piece for us to hang in for just a moment is I want people to understand the skill set that it would require to do something like this. Because I think later in our conversation when we start talking about vets in the industry, I think this is a good stage setter for.
[00:24:25.590] - Brandon
Holy cow, look at the kinds of exposure these men and women know. Obviously in SF it's men now, but that may change in the future. But what does that look like? So a couple of places. Rod, I want to hang with you here. Describe for me what was it specifically besides the commitment to the person to your left and right? What is it that you experienced in the organization that drove you, that made you see and understand what the mission was, what you had in front of you, how you could accomplish the task in front of you, and then some of those skills that you developed, being in other countries and having to basically unify or create relationship with them in order for that mission to be successful.
[00:25:08.130] - Rod
Yeah, it's a great question. Thanks a lot for that one. A lot of your special forces guys, green berets, are entrepreneurs, believe it or not. They don't like to be told what to do. A lot of times they already know. A lot of times, what needs to be done. They see things differently, kind of like a business owner or somebody who's running a department or something to that nature. And the reason they come into special forces is because they have a lot of leeway, they have a lot of autonomy, and they're not told what to do. I mean, we set these clear objectives, goals, what things we are trying to accomplish, which is what I love the most about that, because we weren't being told what to do. We were being said, here's your left and right limits. Here's our end state of what we're trying to accomplish and we want to do. And by the way, you may not get to your end state. And you know what? Because it's a six year program or it's a six year journey to get there. But what we need you as a team to do is go establish that rapport, like you said, and start to gain the trust and the commitment from that other piece.
[00:26:19.800] - Rod
So it depends on where you're at in that plan. And that really is something that drove me. I like the strategic piece of it. I like the piece of it to where we were in there, and we were able to work with the autonomy and being able to make decisions on the ground, and we didn't have someone saying, okay, go left, go right, go do this. And when I had a team, especially when I was a commander and I had eleven other guys on a team, one of the things I always said is, like, if I'm having to push you, then I don't need you. I was more about like this. I was more about pulling the reins back. Whoa, don't outrun your headlights here. Or you come back over here a little bit. Go back over that way. So it's not like you're giving them specific things. They know what you're trying to accomplish. And that's what I really enjoyed, and I think that's really why, when I transitioned out of the army as a Green beret. That's what attracted me to business so much, because we operated as a business. We absolutely operated as a business.
[00:27:20.410] - Rod
The only thing we didn't have to do is generate money like a company does to stay relevant. And so a lot of those skills that you're talking about, whether it is developing rapport, you're having these large meetings, if you think about business development that you're trying to get the larger accounts with the biggest account is another country to work with you. What you're trying to do, it's no different than you're trying to go out and get a big Walmart account for all their emergency services. Right? Then you have that aspect of it. When you start talking about winning the hearts and minds, you have to be genuine in that you can't be false or plastic. You have to be genuine in what you say. You can't over promise. And we always were very careful not to say we're going to accomplish something. We'd always say this is what we're attempting to do. And so you don't want to over promise something and then under deliver because you lost your opportunity to gain that bit of trust. And that correlates to a lot of customers and customer service that we deal with in today. You want to under promise, over deliver, but you also want to win the hearts and minds.
[00:28:24.350] - Rod
And you think about the first time you come in to meet a customer. You haven't met them, you don't know them. Hopefully your reputation and image has perceived you before you arrive because you've done a great job of that. But even then, you still have to establish that rapport. And until you establish that rapport, you're going to still be looked at differently. Sometimes that can happen. If we're talking about a disaster issue that happens very quickly because now, then you're the hero, you're coming in. They just want that pain to stop, whether it's the water on the floor or something like that. Then that's your best opportunity to do that. And that's what we would do. A lot of times we come in and we establish that rapport by bringing something, bringing something of value to them. And so that way you get a little foot in the door. And then when you get the foot in the door now you kind of wiggle your way in. But that is earned over time. And so that's a huge skill set that has to be done because otherwise you're in another country. You have to be very resourceful because you don't have all the support, backing and everything else that you would in the states.
[00:29:36.150] - Rod
And that, to me, kind of correlates to what you got to be resourceful, which was what I always say about project managers. They've got to be resourceful because a lot of times you don't have everything at your disposal, what you're looking for. And then the other one is critical thinking. You got to be able to think on your feet and you have a plan. And that's one of the things drives me crazy in this industry is I see so many people that don't have a plan on how they're getting their projects done, and it just cripples them. And we would always have a plan of what we were doing, and we would isolate and develop that plan, and then we would go to implement it, and there would be things that would change on it, by all means. And so you got to have some contingencies and you got to have some indicators that let you know that. But if you understand that now, then you're able to be very adaptable. Yeah.
[00:30:23.130] - Brandon
You're not reinventing the entire wheel. You're making.
[00:30:25.720] - Rod
No. Yeah, exactly. If you did your job on the front end, you're just tweaking it a little bit and making some adjustments. And when I work with a leader or something like that, I call it adaptive leadership. You always hear these things about great man or situational leadership or something like that. Our biggest thing was we were adaptable leaders, and adaptive leadership means problem solvers, and that is a huge skill set. You got to be able to be able to deal with problems, and a lot of that deals with conflict or different situations and understanding where negotiations, all those kind of things, is huge to do that. So those are some of the skills that are transferable to the civilian sector.
[00:31:10.650] - Brandon
Yeah, 100%. There's kind of a couple of ideas I think I had as you were walking through that. It was interesting is, and you've highlighted this a couple of different times, there's clarity around the commander's intent. Right. You call it in state, but it's that idea of, we know what the final, what's the win? What does the win look like, how we get there? We're going to hold onto it with a fairly loose hand because things will change. But we are very clear on what the objective is. And I think as organizations, that's where we really commonly drop the ball. We may know as a key leader, as the business owner, where we want to go. We might have had that ipa talk with a friend or a relative or somebody in our sphere. And, man, from their perspective, we've got it dialed in on the vision that we have for our company. We've done a horrible job of translating that downline so that our teams understand what the win is. Where are we going?
[00:31:59.850] - Rod
Right.
[00:32:00.340] - Brandon
What are our actions that we commit to today? What is their purpose? What are they influencing overall? And that's what I heard you say. And my experience, even as just only airborne and being a leg for a series of years, was I always knew what the end state was, the commander's intent, how we got there. It often changed, but we knew what the win looked like. And I think that's critical. I think another thing that you mentioned to me is just very interesting, is you kind of alluded to this element of earning the rapport and trust with these foreign nations. And to me, I think what I've witnessed firsthand, not in just my experience, but just observing some of my friends or acquaintances in the special operations group, is that you have to learn their pain, you have to learn their politics in a certain way. One of our biggest misunderstandings, and I think the media hasn't helped us a whole lot with that, is we don't understand what the teams are being exposed to when they're in these foreign countries. And not to get stuck on a political or a vet topic, but what I'm trying to get to is the guys and gals on the ground part of their mission is to understand the worldview of this counterpart so that you understand their pain and you can deliver something that's meaningful to them.
[00:33:15.090] - Brandon
And I think we really underestimate, then the value of that as it translates into us in a business, we have to understand our clients pain, right?
[00:33:24.240] - Rod
No, you just hit on it. I mean, that is it, pain points. And there's been times when we're the legal arm of that country or that place we're working with and the judicial system, and I never went to become a lawyer or anything like that, but you still got to look at what their customs are, what their culture is, and then when you understand their pain points, that's when you can provide a solution. I think a lot of times we automatically assume what the pain points are. I think it's a huge deal, especially when you're meeting with a customer for the first time. It's not about me, it's about them. And it's just like when you go through the sales process, you get a lead, but then you got to make sure it's a qualified lead, and you got to make sure that you are providing something that they need, that you can help them. And I feel like a lot of times we see a lot of people try to provide something and they say, oh, that can help, but they haven't even heard what they need yet. I'm actually telling them what they think they need because that's what they want to give them.
[00:34:21.520] - Rod
And I think that's a huge deal in business. I think it's a huge deal what we did. And you have to relate to the stakeholder or the person on the other side of the table that you're talking with. And if you can't relate, then you're going to be very hard, like I was saying, to be genuine. It's going to be very difficult to provide a solution and you're probably going to over promise and under deliver if you don't understand that.
[00:34:47.610] - Brandon
It's interesting, too, and I think this might work as a bit of a segue to get into this component about vets entering the industry. And some of the inherent value in that is this is important as well for us as key leaders to understand how this makes sense for our internal people. I think often we make the mistake of looking at our people as tools and resources and is there a function to that? Sure. But the reality of it is it's the whole thing, Chris, and I say all the time, these are people with hopes and dreams and aspirations and frustrations, just like you and.
[00:35:21.050] - Rod
Right.
[00:35:21.540] - Brandon
And so it's like, hey, as key leaders, are we doing that as like we may be teaching really well how to go out and identify the pain points for our clients and address a solution or provide a solution of value? But are we doing that internally? Are we asking our internal stakeholders what the world looks like from their eyes and their seat, and are we understanding and able to contribute to in meaningful way the pain or the friction points that they observe or that they experience as part of our team? Right. And how do you feel about that? Obviously you're a training and we haven't gotten into that, but you've got some connection to this. What's your perspective on that?
[00:35:58.280] - Rod
My biggest thing is, what's the biggest problem with every business is one of the things I asked a lot of times. I was like, what do you think your biggest problem you have in your own business or what's your biggest problem? What is every business's biggest problem? And you hear all these different things and I go back to its communication. Every company has the same biggest problem is communication. And when you're expecting them to go out and do a job, and you're saying, go do this, deliver that, get it done. You're giving them direction, that aspect of it. But also that's kind of the more direct level communication. You got to be able to peel back that onion a little bit and get some thought process. Anytime I interviewed someone, I always ask them different questions, off the wall questions. I didn't really care if I was hiring somebody who did drywall. I didn't really care about if I didn't want to talk about drywall. I wanted to see how they communicated. I would ask them things like, what's your core values? What are your strengths? What is this? And I would try to peel back that onion a little bit so I could understand who they were.
[00:36:58.520] - Rod
Then I would give some different situations, and I'd want to understand what their thought process was. And then we would handle later on a second interview, we'd test them out and see how they did on the drywall. And I was much more worried about the first pieces of that, more than I was anything about if they could repair drywall or not, because then if I understood that their thought process, they could communicate and what they had to bring to the table as a value to me, that was much more beneficial. When we get into the point where veterans are coming into this industry or even anyone else who are hiring, I think a lot of times we're hiring based off a need really quick, and we make these spontaneous decisions about hiring somebody. And there are some times for that you're going to have to take some risk here and there. But if you're truly wanting to build a culture and an organization that is going to be dependable, reliable, that culture, like I was talking about before, you're going to have to look for those. You have to peel back that onion a little bit more and get some communication and find out what are those strengths they bring.
[00:38:02.730] - Rod
Table what were their previous and past experiences they did? It may not correlate specifically to what you're doing, what their job may be. If you think about project management or you think about painter drywall flooring, something like that, but it does, it absolutely does. That foundations that they have, they bring to the table. And something, maybe even a bigger experience than what we can offer them as a company can drive your company and drive those people around it to create that bond, that camaraderie that they feel like they're a part of something bigger.
[00:38:38.710] - Chris
All right, Headhart and Boots, listeners wanted to stop here just a moment and thank our underwriting sponsor bloodlight consulting group. As all of you, you know, Brandon and I, this is our passion project. Headhart and Boots is. But it's also a way more and more that our consulting clients find us and in effect, they interview us, right? Those of you been listening to show for a while, you get to know who we are, right, what we're about. So if Headhart and Boots is valuable to you, one of the best things you can do is share it with your friends. And it's been incredible to watch just the audience grow. And we still get text messages from many of you about shows that you really like and impacted you. So that's number one. And please keep doing that. Many of you have been huge advocates of the show. We also just want to remind you, too, if you're a restoration company owner and you're interested in a partner in your growth, you want some help building out systems, developing your leadership teams, helping set up the infrastructure for you to scale and grow into the company that you're trying to build.
[00:39:37.900] - Brandon
That's what we do.
[00:39:38.940] - Chris
That's what we do is we come alongside restoration company leaders. We help equip them and we help support them in that growth trajectory. So if you're looking for that, go to floodlightgrp.com. Potentially, we could be a great match for each other.
[00:39:52.080] - Brandon
Another way that we really do serve our client base and our sphere of influence is through our premier partners. We work really hard to vet those folks that we believe bring a level of value to the industry, that it can really be leveraged in a way to have a sincere positive impact on your business. We take that very seriously. The folks that we create those kind of ongoing partnerships, that's not a check the box kind of scenario. We really see strategic alignment in the value that they bring. We see value in the way that their leadership teams and their partners are developed. And we've done very sincere work of ensuring that these folks that we introduce our clients and our sphere to can actually create vetted value. So go check out floodlightgrp.com premier partners and see if there's some folks on there that you can connect with and begin developing some other resources to support your growth and your business. So I can't remember, and I apologize if I didn't connect the dots here, but prior to trifecta, you actually had a restoration company, correct?
[00:40:53.940] - Rod
Yes.
[00:40:54.680] - Brandon
And one of the things with that is, did you have veterans on staff in your own organization?
[00:41:01.810] - Rod
I did. I've owned several companies and I had a defense contracting company. I still own today, construction, we do more commercial and defense world, and we did stuff for like NASA, Air Force, big Army, solar, stuff like that. And I had, majority of the people that I hired was veterans in that piece of it. A lot of my special forces guys were there that we did that, were out there turning bolts, putting this stuff in building stuff. They were also the reason I did that, because I knew that they could communicate with our stakeholder, and I didn't have to be there doing that. And so, yeah, I hired veterans all about that. And then even programs, we know where they're independent contractors. Ton of veterans there we've hired to go overseas, and we've provided project managers in Afghanistan where we built power plants, put in solar systems, put in base lighting, all kinds of construction pieces right there. And I put all veterans in there because I knew they could get the job done. I didn't have to give much of the leeway. When I bought a failing restoration company, they had no veterans in there.
[00:42:03.380] - Rod
They'd had a couple before, but they weren't there anymore because they left because the culture was bad. And so when I bought it, we started putting in some veterans of that piece of it. And it wasn't like I was going out looking for veterans, but we were trying to attract them from that piece of it. And so I brought in people that had never been in the construction world before, taught them project management, taught them how to estimate, put them out, put them with somebody with industry experience, and created that skill set for them. But we would always look to hire veterans if we could. And we even did some programs with the military to bring them over to transfer them directly.
[00:42:41.000] - Brandon
Yeah, I want to hang on this for a minute, because I just feel like there is a major part of the success that I've had in this industry that I can point back directly to the experience that I had while I was in the military. There's just something interesting about somebody that's been in the military in terms of creating confidence and competence, I think. Was that a term you used yesterday, or was that somebody else we were talking to?
[00:43:05.880] - Rod
I've used it before. I don't know if I used it yesterday or not.
[00:43:08.910] - Brandon
I'm going to attribute it to you. So any this idea of confidence and confidence. Right. Is being a primary responsibility to us as employers to ensure that we create that in our teams. And so I was just thinking about that honestly, and I'm not trying to toot my own horn kind of thing, but it's just this principle of, I was fairly willing I was fairly confident and willing to take on stuff that really I didn't know anything about, not because I felt like I had a mastery of the content, but I just had learned over the years of once you start taking action, you will be forced to go through the process of learning what is necessary to iterate and make changes. And the next thing you know it, you actually have a skill set now in that particular area. But that confidence that I got, I think that's some real secret sauce that we are underestimating when we're looking for veterans in the workforce, because some of that, it's like they just had the exposure. They were put through the paces that many of our young workforce has never had the opportunity to be put through or develop that skill set because they just haven't had the exposure.
[00:44:20.910] - Brandon
And that's what I kind of hear you saying is that's what's translated. The confidence was in that skill set, not in the trade craft per se of what it is that you needed them to do in a specific role.
[00:44:32.350] - Rod
Yeah, absolutely. And if you think about someone who has been in the military, let's say even four or five years, let's say they do one enlistment or one contract with that piece of it, and they get out and they have that honorable discharge. There's a certain level of a person you're getting from that. If you think about core values, most people come in the military. They hopefully align with what the core values are, but the military ingrains that core value into them. What that is integrity, honesty, personal courage. And I think what that was a big deal. What you're just talking about is that personal courage, what is that confidence and that personal courage that says you can get that done? And it's because they were given, it wasn't like you were given that from the very beginning. But it's a series of little things that you're provided over the time. You're given these opportunities, and as you take advantage of those opportunities and you look at them as opportunities, then hopefully you're developing along the way. You're going to make mistakes. I mean, we all do, right? The difference is, are you getting coached on what the mistake was or are you getting yelled at?
[00:45:34.330] - Rod
When you're getting yelled at, it doesn't seem like you're going to learn a whole lot like that. Maybe some people it motivates, some people it doesn't. Maybe some people just shut you off. So in our industry, we have a job to do. We have a skill set to do, especially if you're in one of those trades. That's a specific piece of it. But there's also opportunities in the trades that you have to be able to provide. I call it enabling the team. You have to enable the team. That's your job as a leader. It's not my job to go out there and hammer nails if I'm the owner or if I'm the project manager or something like that. My job is to enable them to be successful, and enabling them goes beyond just their trade. You have to be able to enable them. Can they lead two people, three people? Give them those opportunities, because now, then you're going to see how they think they're going to make mistakes, but then you can also coach them up and hopefully see that potential of them later on. As we get to our mid level managers, too, we don't have a lot of leadership training within this industry, but we're asking them to lead without being dedicated the team.
[00:46:37.940] - Rod
Right. So there's a skill set there, and I think that's where that confidence, that personal courage comes in to where you've been exposed to those experiences in the past. And now then, even though you may not have all the answers right, you're smart enough to know where you can go. You have smart enough to ask questions, hopefully, and you're smart enough to be able to implement things. So I think that is a huge benefit, that when you see somebody that's been in there four or five years, and if they didn't get kicked out, you've got a certain skill, you got somebody who can understand what the core values are and they can adhere to a structure. Number two. Now then you've got to do the digging to find out what is underneath there that they can bring to your team. And that confidence, is it the confidence? Is it the ability? And asking them, give me a time when you had to lead somebody. Asking those open ended questions are huge.
[00:47:26.900] - Brandon
Yeah, it's funny. I think one of the things I experienced when I was transitioning out of the military was just trying to understand how to translate the skill set on paper so that it made sense to prospective employer. And I think that it sucked. It felt called crap, if I'm honest. I had given eight years of my life to something, and it was very difficult for me to put on paper other than I shot stuff. What did you do? How do you articulate that skill set transfer? And I think the reality of it is, looking back, if I were to kind of try to articulate what I think generically, many vets leaving the service have is we put a lot of weight, for example, on somebody that might come with an MBA or at least a four year degree from a college or an educational institution. I think the interesting thing about that is it's all the book. It's all book learning. There's no translation into action. And I think one of the things that's so special about the armed forces is their training is centered around a skill set transfer. And the way that they create that is they create it by merging some limited academic exposure just enough to do the trick.
[00:48:36.250] - Brandon
And then it's iterating. It's the practicing. It's the doing. It's the getting your hands on the process and executing on it where they get the gains. And I think for most organizations, that's a very difficult thing to implement in our own organization. So the fact that somebody after a three or four year enlistment, and again, I'm biased, especially take a look at the infantry, because on paper, it may be one of the hardest ones to translate into a skill set. But if you want to see the youngest people getting exposed to the most complex things, it's actually in the armed or in the combat arms. It's those young people that get exposed to frontline activity. Anyways, I'll land the plane here. The point is, they've had three to four years of exposure of both an academic exposure, but really integration into skill set adoption because they're practicing that craft. And so having somebody that's had four years of learning how to talk to people be successful within a clear chart, understanding what communicating the commander's intent looks like, dude, you would have to pay big money to give people foundation before they even hit your company.
[00:49:52.110] - Rod
Yeah, I could not agree more with know you triggered something there that I want to bring out. Working overseas a lot of times, if you think about the oil and gas industry, I worked with them quite a bit when we were doing stuff in Africa, doing business development there and piece of it, and even looking at your liquefied natural gas plants, because most of those are going into a culture that are overseas. They do not bring their skill sets with them. Labor from the United States, number one, it's too expensive. Number two, you got to get them into country so they grow their own organically. And I correlate it back to where we're at today in this industry. A lot of times I hear people say, oh, you see this restoration project manager, they're looking for or restoration or exactimate estimator. And so they're looking for a specific skill set has already been developed in that aspect of it. Right. And some of the hardest ones to find are your restoration project managers. Because we're looking at the wrong places. We're looking for the wrong. You know, I think I did it when I wrote an article on how to be the TPA success algorithm that came out.
[00:51:00.240] - Rod
And one of the things I talk about is how we recruit and how do we develop. And I think we're always looking for this restoration unicorn to fit our organization. But in reality, what we should be doing is just what you were talking about. We should be looking for the instrument that can develop a craft. Right. Because then they hone in on a craft. You get that opportunity in the military because they have a specific professional development program that you follow in that piece of it for leadership. They also have different skill sets. What they do for training, and they do training all the time. And a lot of it's hip pocket training or every Thursday they devote that amount of training. Now, in business, that's kind of hard to do at times, but it's really not. I mean, we devoted, in my companies, we devoted time for training with everybody every week, whether it was 2 hours or an hour or something like that, whether it's elearning or trying to get. I remember talking to people and I said, hey, I want you to take this course, and I want you to develop this skill set, and I want you to kind of come back and let's talk about what that meant to you.
[00:51:59.590] - Rod
Oil and gas industries did this very well. They bring in somebody that's going to run the project and everything else overseas. Then they start to recruit within the local area. And when they recruit that, they're not getting the skill set that they're looking for, but they're running the training to be able to teach them that skill set organically. And then as they get Further and Further along now, then they develop that mastery of that craft, and within three years after the plants built, now they have somebody that's very skilled in that piece of it and they know it, and then they roll them right over into another job to help run in. Now, I'm not saying that we're tailored the exactly same way the oil and gas is, but we have to look at our organic development of individuals if we really want to be able to succeed in this industry.
[00:52:44.630] - Brandon
I love that. It's interesting because I think where a lot of companies get high centered on that topic is they start looking at it from a cost perspective. They look at it as cost associated with. I've got 15 MIT techs on the clock this morning at 730 and I'm just really concerned about my payroll spend over the next hour when I keep these guys or gals in a room and we talk about some of these training concepts and things like that. And what's interesting about that is we do not take note at all of the opportunity cost that's on the other side of that equation. And in most cases, if we take a moment to break that down, you identify actually in measurable numbers that it's way higher than the payroll spend you would have had of just doing the training. I also think about that, like, we work with teams often and no one in the roster, they may have the knowledge inside the team, but no one has the time. Meaning there is no dedicated trainer, as an example, in the organization. And granted, if you're a ten person team, we probably do not have the resources right for that.
[00:53:50.170] - Brandon
But let's just do the math here. Let's say, for instance, in my organization, regardless of the size, I was going to pay a trainer, someone on my staff that really likes to empower and educate people and share their experience. 100 grand a year. $100,000. How much, let's say, in our GP gains. What if I gained a half a percent on average across all my jobs because of that training? What if I reduced the lead time it took for a brand new mitigation tech to go from cost to production? A producer on my staff? What if I cut that down by three weeks? How much of that 100 grand have I ate up? I think we get challenged with a spend because we're not doing a good job of analyzing what the real cost we're already paying for not properly training our staff. And I think if we do that, if we take some time to think through that, we'll realize we actually should be investing more intentionally there, and that the cost for us in the long term is actually far less than what we're already spending based on opportunity cost. How's that hit you?
[00:54:57.630] - Brandon
When I say something like that, you're speaking my language.
[00:55:01.990] - Rod
Our model is growing businesses by growing people. And that's our big why. And growing your people grows your business. That's the bottom line. Just the internal growth. It's the external growth. And if you think about if you're investing in someone, I can't tell you how many times that people that employees might came back and says, really appreciate you sending me that training or doing that with us, because now then you're investing in them and that creates that trust as well, and commitment, and it goes back to establishing that rapport. And when you can do that and you can show that you have a genuine interest in someone else's development and also their career, and you're willing to take that chance on them, now there will be people that leave. Okay? And that's where I hear a lot of people that tell me, oh, why am I going to invest this training for them just to go ahead and leave? You know what? You're investing that training because that is who you are, and that is what your organization is about. You are about professionally developing your team. Now, you may have someone leave, but if you continually take that thought process in a professional development strategy, think about all the people that don't leave.
[00:56:12.070] - Rod
Think about all the other money that they're going to make you whenever they're out there talking to that customer and they are communicating what you have communicated to them, or they're being that adaptive individual, because now, then you can't train them to respond to every situation. But if you have the background of training and they can understand the concepts of that and that aspect of it, then they can represent your company that may save you money that you don't even know that you were losing yet. So, like, kind of what you were expounded on. Exactly. And then how many times can I internally reduce my spend on that portion of it? And that's why I think everybody needs to understand that they're all a salesperson within your company. They're all a negotiator within your company. At some point, there may be a time when it's above their abilities or capabilities, and then the biggest thing you really don't want them doing is making the decision. You want them to be able to say, hey, you know what? That's not for me, but I can get you in the right place. And you don't get that unless you train, unless you teach them.
[00:57:18.040] - Rod
One of the things we did as special forces that made us so successful is we always train in situations. That was bizarre things. The biggest way we could create something that may or may not happen, the probability may be very minimal. But as you can adapt to each one of those situations, you take it the way it is. That's the heart of being a crisis management, crisis manager in that piece of it, because you have put yourself in every situation you possibly think of, and you go, see, how would we do this? How would we handle it? And if you don't do that with your team and you can expound off certain situations, you got to be able to do those lessons learned. That's the same thing as training. One of the things we would always do is if something situation happened, we got egg on our face or something of that nature, man. The very next morning when everybody showed up, everybody was there. We are talking about what happened, what took place, why it took place. We were engaging everyone in there. What would you have done? What would you have done? And we're trying to get those involvement because now, then if they're ever in that situation again, they have something to pull back from.
[00:58:29.990] - Rod
If we don't do that, then how the hell are they going to know? You're just going to push it on a rug? That's the lowest level of professional development and training right there. And developing your people. Yeah.
[00:58:43.270] - Brandon
I think one of the things that you pointed out there, Rob, which is really important, is an investment on the soft skills. It's not just the shooting. Right. It's the other things. What are those? And I think that whole confidence and competency piece is it's investing in the soft skills piece. Ultimately, with our vets, a lot of times so much of that has been put into place. Now, don't get me wrong, there's dirt bags and everything. Absolutely. We had plenty of guys and gals in the military where I wouldn't hire them if somebody paid me. But in broad strokes, it is so common in that group of folks for you to have a lot of these foundations already laid. So a couple of things I just want to kind of summarize as we go through this, and then I want to shift a little bit and kind of the last part of our conversation, I want to talk a little bit about the vets that are already on our teams and what we can do to have a better understanding for them, maybe create a better value for them in our companies and just support them.
[00:59:42.800] - Brandon
But before we do that, guys, listen, here's just kind of a quick pass at some of the things that I believe that Rod said that came out as part of this. Know, I think all of us understand is that vets are already commonly used to working in environments that are high pace, high stress. So just the fact alone, especially, again, if you're talking about combat arms elements in the military, you're going to see a lot of this, but it's really true across the board. So just that alone, I mean, think about the synergy between our industry and how hard we often fight to get a generic civilian to understand the pace we need to operate at. And then in the pace, how do we do that in a meaningful and good attitude way where we're capable of supporting those around us and not just sucking all the air out of the room because we're complaining and burnt out. Right. So just the fact that that's built into their dna. The other thing I heard you say, rod, is these are teams that are people that are consistently being placed in situations where they're practicing or exercising skill set that's out their outer edges, meaning they're developing soft skills, they're developing behaviors and attitudes that helps them take that raw product.
[01:00:52.900] - Brandon
And then we layer over a trade craft or a skill set on top of it and they become really successful team members. That's hard to implement, that's hard to do within our own teams. And I think the last part that I hear you say, and this goes all the way back to you describing your time with the teams, is, look, these are the kind of people that want to be part of a thing that's bigger them, a mission. They want to be in a really interesting peer related relationship with those to the left and right of them. And as far as I'm concerned, when I look at the types of companies, even in our own, where we had some success culturally, those were the kind of people I wanted. I wanted them to want to be part of something beyond themselves. Right. All of that is what I heard you say is built in commonly to the dna of vets. And holy cow, what a better fit. Like these are some people that we should be chasing as restoration employers because they're the kind of people that can really change our organization for the better.
[01:01:55.440] - Brandon
Is there anything you want to add? I try to summarize this stuff because I know people are listening in the cab of their trucks, know, coming and going between projects. But is there anything else you want to just layer on that, Rob?
[01:02:06.480] - Rod
No, I think you did a really good summary of that, Brandon. And the one thing I go back to, the same thing like we were talking about before, if you understand what the potential you can get from of how much further are you on that development piece of it and what can be that lead off that will exude with other people, but you have to realize you've got to peel back that onion to kind of get to them to be able to see that. Because like you said, it's very difficult to understand how to translate that coming out of the military into the civilian sector. And like you said, hiring $100,000 trainer is not the best thing in the world because now then what are they training on and what is their limitations? Because now, then you're really hiring somebody to schedule training or coordinate training or try to get some other training in there. So having that focus on being a consistent, lifelong learner is huge. Picking something that is going to allow you to force multiple. And it's another word we use within special operations. It is. I want one person to be able to develop ten in some aspects of it.
[01:03:09.940] - Rod
Right. In our case, we were looked at developing over 1000, and that's a force multiplier. So find that force multiplier. But you got to peel back that onion to kind of make sure what you're getting with it. But you've also got to ask more thoughtful questions than how do you repair a drywall? So those are, like you said, soft skills. And believe it, most people, even in my life, I would much rather not have to shoot or pull a gun out to do something if I can do it. I've always said I was a 5% stick guy and a 95% carrot guy, because why would I want to put myself at risk when I don't have to? Why would you want to put your company at risk if you don't have to? Or why would you want to find that force multiplier that's going to develop your culture and your company? And I think you have a head start with what you're talking about. Pulling in a veteran at times.
[01:04:04.690] - Brandon
Dude, I love that comment, and I just kind of want to highlight that before we move into this last piece of I'm 5% stick and 95% carrot. I think there's something really cool there for us to take note of, of if we design our businesses correctly, guys, that should be the lifestyle we live as leaders. 95% of the time, we're saying, thank you. Add a girl, add a boy. Great job. We're in alignment. We're winning. There will be the 5%, but if you feel like you're 95% stick in your business and 5% carrot, there is some substantial problems in the business that need your attention. And maybe hiring more vets could potentially help with some of that. I love that that one's going to stick for me. I might get a t shirt made with that shit on. All right, dude. This last piece, and I want to be cognizant of your time. A lot of our industry, it's a blue collar grind. There's a lot of veterans that are already attracted to what we do, and they're already here. They certainly are in our construction environments, but there's a lot of them that have already made their way into our industry, and they're on our teams, right be.
[01:05:18.220] - Brandon
Let's keep this fairly tight. Can you give me, from your experience and background, Rod, what are the top three things as a business owner or employer that we should be doing in order to take the best care of our veterans and really maximize the experience they have with us and us with them if they're already on our.
[01:05:37.850] - Rod
Randy, you asked great questions. I've worked with a lot of organizations. I actually went through a program when I got out of the military called, I think I told you about it yesterday, was called EBV, and it stood for entrepreneurs, boot camp for veterans. And when I transitioned, realized it took me a couple of years to figure out what my skill set was, but I started the company and I was having operational withdrawals and being able to do, I realized I was an entrepreneur. And I realized that a lot of times, most of your vets, they have these entrepreneurial pieces of them that pull out because they were given some leeway or they're given some tasks or some missions in the past where they had to perform. So I would say, number one, have a conversation with your vet and just say, you know what? I'd like to get some really kind of feedback from you. About what? Do you see the difference in the company here that you're us as an organization versus what you had in the military? Is it better? Is it worse? What was your experiences in the military? What was your experiences here?
[01:06:42.210] - Rod
Is there something that we're doing that is better than what you had there? Is there something that was being done better there that you don't see happening here? And I call that cross polynization, because you're coming from a different industry and you're looking at what you're looking at your industry. And if you have a vet, you need to ask them. And you know what? Because they are used to being able after actions reviews, aars, you remember that term, right? Yeah, we used to do that all the time when we had a problem job, or even when we would look at our jobs and success, we would look and see the things on that piece of it. But if you could tap into that as an aar for your company or organization based on what they experience, and you know what? You may not get anything out of it, but for the most part, they're used to being able to being asked for input and they're able to give a good, honest answer. But you've got to set that stage and you know what, you also want to set that. Why not get your vets altogether?
[01:07:42.060] - Rod
If you have multiple vets, pull them in and have that type of conversation with them and maybe ask them, what do you think was good about leadership where you came from versus what we have here? Is there a way we can do something like that? If you ask? If you don't ever ask, you're probably not going to get anything back. So that would be my first thing to look at what you can tap into from your vet. But you got to get to know them. And a lot of people don't do that. They only expect them to show up between 730 and five. And a lot of times they want to believe out, too. They're done with the job. They just want to get out of there. So maybe you have to set time during the day, invest in that person, invest in that opportunity that you have available to you, that skill set. You may not even realize. But that would be my first piece of it. The second thing that I like to do within organizations where I can always tell the military people when I do this without ever knowing they were military, is I have them all do a 360 review and it's something simple.
[01:08:39.800] - Rod
It's not a big detailed one, but it's three positives, three negatives of each individual. And everybody has to, we give out sheets and they have to write it. And you'll see the ones that I can always tell who the. Almost always. I can always tell because of the way they write and the way they actually document the positives and the negatives. That's always good to get back from your own internal piece of the culture and you'll start to see where your leaders are within your organization. And I bet you if you got some military folks in there, they're probably going to stand out from me. And then the third one is look at how you can tap into them to create positive experiences for those around them and give them more responsibility. We always had these things called additional duties in the military. You probably remember that you didn't get paid any more for it, you didn't get paid any less. You always got some candid feedback if you're on the wrong. But you know what? Give them some more responsibility and give them a project more than what they're just doing, but give it a project that something's meaningful and something's going to help your company grow.
[01:09:50.010] - Rod
And maybe it's sharing their story, maybe it's sharing something of that nature in that aspect of it. But think about some how do you tap in that resource and you got to have the trust and commitment before you ever do it?
[01:10:01.490] - Brandon
Yeah, I love that. And there's a common thread there for all of us, right. To pay attention to is he didn't notice in that entire thing there wasn't a lot of onus placed on the vet themselves, right. It's all placed on us. Like we have to be investing in that relationship in order to get the absolute best from them. Another thing, I just want to highlight this as an example of something that just makes them great ads to the team that I don't know that we touched on and that is going back to that aar piece. These are team members, by the way. We love that term and we actually teach all our consulting clients how to conduct them on a regular basis. They're great, by the way, for implementing change in the company in that first 30 to 45 days post that change, do a ton of aars to make sure the behavior is being adopted and it's getting executed. But I love that term. Anyways, what my point was is that military personnel as a whole, again, there's dirt bags and everything, but as a whole, they are really good at looking at their performance post an event.
[01:11:01.810] - Brandon
Like they're just used to doing that for sure in the combat arms. But I think it's common across the military services in general is they've grown accustomed to their performance being evaluated. And one of the things that I see business owners and key leaders really cringe at sometimes is it's very difficult for them to want to conduct an inspection of and be accountable to the performance that that team member just participated in. And military people are used to it. If they show up at your company and you're doing Aars and you've provided clear aspects in terms of what the standards are and what wins look like, they're going to have no problem you evaluating their performance. They're used to it. And holy shit, if I'm an employer, I want that to be very second nature in my organization. Otherwise, I know that for sure we're not going to win or iterate or continue to progress.
[01:11:52.870] - Rod
So what?
[01:11:53.510] - Brandon
Another huge thing for us hiring vets is they're used to it.
[01:11:58.180] - Rod
They'll like it.
[01:12:00.310] - Brandon
It makes sense to them. All right, man, last thing. Let's wrap this up. It's been fun. I want to be able to give people an opportunity to learn more about you and your team and what you're doing to support the industry outside of just this vast experience that you have coming up. But where can we send people if they want to learn more about trifecta and what you're know, maybe especially around project management training and some of the trainings that you're putting on. Where are we sending people so they can learn more?
[01:12:26.930] - Rod
Yeah, they can actually visit our [email protected]. We also are on LinkedIn. We have a trifecta page there you can follow us on. We post project tips. A lot of times if you go to our website, we have a blog and there's project tips in there. There's some testimonials about project management training that we offer and some of the certifications. We're trying to get more credibility and recognition within this industry, and it is about professional development. And one of my things is I have had the luxury and opportunity throughout my career of always getting and seeking out professional development as a lifelong learner. And that's what we're looking at. That's how we are going to help you force multiply your organization is by getting your people the right training that's going to allow them to be a contributor to your business. That's going to end up on your bottom line and also your culture.
[01:13:18.270] - Brandon
I love it. Dude. Some of the terminology you use, I feel like we're melding brains here. That whole force multiplier thing, such a foundational perspective on what people can actually be within our organization. Anyway, guys, so one more time, trifectagrowthinstitute.com. Correct?
[01:13:38.220] - Rod
That's correct.
[01:13:39.260] - Brandon
Awesome. So check them out. And by the way, we don't know the details yet, but as you could probably get, I'm liking Rod a lot, and we're probably going to look at some potential ways that both floodlights team and Trifecta's team can work alongside of each other. So definitely do yourself a favor and check out what Rod's got going on at Trifecta. And Rod, thanks again for your time, bro. I really appreciate you hanging out with.
[01:14:02.130] - Rod
Me today, Brandon, really appreciate it. And really appreciate what you guys are doing at floodlight as well, and look forward to opportunities that we can influence this industry together.
[01:14:11.300] - Brandon
Love it, man. All right, man, we'll see you later.
[01:14:13.390] - Rod
All right, take care.
[01:14:15.890] - Brandon
All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of head, heart, and boots.
[01:14:20.430] - Chris
And if you're enjoying the show but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.
