[00:00:00.000] - Chris
Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:00:11.230] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead.
[00:00:17.630] - Brandon
This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours.
[00:00:21.000] - Chris
I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it.
[00:00:23.100] - Brandon
I thought you did that on purpose.
[00:00:24.150] - Brandon
No, I don't. I didn't, and I am not happy with it. Hey, all, thanks so much for listening to the show. Hey, if you're not already following, please do so and ultimately share, right? Like the coolest currency that we have in terms of supporting this is share it with a friend, share it with somebody, a colleague, a peer, one of your downline team members. Let them be able to take advantage of the information you're already leveraging in your favor. And finally, guys, if you hear a show that really moves you, that really moves the needle, will you please leave us a review? Those five-star reviews help us a ton.
[00:00:58.140] - Chris
Right on. And listen, if you're trying to grow your business, you might consider checking out Floodlight's business opportunity audit. It's free. We provided it no charge. It's actually what we use to assess new clients as they come in. It's a 110 point assessment for your business. We've now decided to give access to the general public for it. So go and take our business opportunity audit at floodlightgrp. Com. It's going to help you identify the biggest gaps and opportunities in your business right now. And at the end, it'll assign you a health score to let you know exactly where your business stands right now. So go check it out, floodlightgrp. Com/audit, and take the Boa. It's a great way to get a pulse on your business.
[00:01:38.440] - Chris
Okay, so we're live. What up, bro? We're live from the Las Vegas airport right here.
[00:01:41.910] - Brandon
Yeah, that's right.
[00:01:42.960] - Chris
This is only, what, the second time we've done this?
[00:01:44.900] - Brandon
Yeah, as far as recording.
[00:01:46.270] - Chris
Yeah, recording on the road. So this is...
[00:01:48.740] - Brandon
Yeah, and the first time did work.
[00:01:49.840] - Chris
It did work. That's right. It was a hotel last time. So we're just coming off the experience, and that it was our first time. Let's hear what I did there. It was clever. It was clever. Yeah, so this is our first time going to the experience, and we didn't have a role either.
[00:02:04.830] - Brandon
No, right. Normally, no. No teaching this time. It was all just guerrilla warfare under the radar.
[00:02:10.250] - Chris
Yeah, it was fun. It was actually nice just slinking around and chatting with people. So what do we want to talk about today?
[00:02:16.150] - Brandon
Well, it was funny because I felt like multiple times throughout our time here at the experience, people were running into some of our strategic partners, just peers. In the industry, there was these random conversations that were kicking up, and some of them were really interesting. And I thought it would be cool to walk through two or three of them and just unpack how the conversations went. And I think what meant a broader value for the group as far as our industry is concerned. So I don't know, that's where I was anticipating, guy. Yeah.
[00:02:43.530] - Chris
I'm trying to think. One of the sessions that you sat in on was Ed Cross's.
[00:02:48.150] - Brandon
Oh, my gosh. He brought the fire. God, he crushed.
[00:02:51.530] - Chris
It was so good. Yeah. And we got into a bit of a dialog here right as we were leaving. He and Lisa and Leighton and Travis of us from Know-how. And then we saw it, and then Holly rocked. And it's a fun thing about these conferences. It's just everybody... It's such a small world.
[00:03:07.240] - Brandon
Yeah, there's all these represented groups.
[00:03:09.690] - Chris
Yeah, you see people across the room and they come over. Anyway, so we got into a really good chat, though, with Ed, and I think Ed, I want to make sure I do justice to his comments, but basically it was, man, delivered all this content.
[00:03:21.620] - Brandon
And it was fire, again.
[00:03:23.270] - Chris
And it was amazing.It.
[00:03:24.000] - Brandon
Was really tactical.
[00:03:25.040] - Chris
And it felt as though to him that some or a lot of people in the room just still walked away not really getting the magnitude of these things or not leaving with a real clear understanding of what to do next.
[00:03:37.780] - Brandon
Yeah, like how to apply it. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:39.890] - Chris
And you and I have felt that before, too. We've gotten out of workshops or we've done a webinar, and Somebody will ask us a question, and it makes you think in the moment, Were you listening?
[00:03:49.660] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:03:50.050] - Chris
Were you here for the thing that I just did? You feel like, Gosh, I just delivered this really thorough, high impact thing. And then as you encounter people or based on the questions that they ask after the fact, it's like, Oh, my gosh, were they even paying attention? And what we were talking to them about or just offering out of our experience was, I think some of the explanation behind that is what we encounter in the consulting a lot Which is why in the world can we not get traction on this really important thing in the business? I think what you and I have discovered is that most of the time, most business owners that are in front of us are in some state of what we've come to refer to as the desperation brain. And that desperation brain, when we first started coining that phrase, it was largely related to hiring and firing. And this basic idea that when we lose somebody on our team, we're afraid that we're going to lose our production capacity. We're not going to be able to service a key client, and everything's going to crumble. There's a very real feeling.
[00:04:53.190] - Chris
And you and I felt it when we were operating in the field. Of course, you can feel it now. And then, of course, it's like, Oh, my gosh, we have to plug this hole. And so then you Bring that desperation brain into your interview process, and it affects your judgment. It affects how you're assessing these potential candidates because there's this at least small part of you that's like, Hey, can they fog a mirror? Do I think they have a possibility of doing Well, let's get them in. We needed them yesterday. And of course, it leads us to making all kinds of bad hiring decisions. And of course, we do that not just with our technicians, not just with our PMs, but we do it across the board in our business when it comes to hiring and hiring. But I think what was occurring to me in that combo with Ed is that that desperation brain, it touches everything in the business.
[00:05:35.030] - Brandon
Yeah, I think essentially what you're outlining is it's a failure to make wise decisions because we're so caught up in the impact of now. And I think we expanded on that a little bit with Ed was just this idea that I think owners and key leaders are just so inundated with the stuff that's hitting them in the face right now that it can be very difficult for them to take this more proactive strategic role in how they're analyzing decisions and what solutions that they're forging inside their organization. And a lot of what Ed is talking about, and this is not to detract from the value, the stuff he talks about is so valuable so real, so black and white, so tactical, but it does seem as if it requires somebody to be thinking longer term about their business. One of the elements that we talked about with him was, I think there are times where operators hear stuff that Ed's saying around our collection practices and our contract practices and how we run and operate jobs to support our invoices on the back end. And in order for a restore to stick it out, they're validated.
[00:06:44.170] - Brandon
They've got to do the due diligence to provide support through the paces of taking a stand to secure their entire invoice and not a portion of it. And I think ultimately, they get inundated with the cost now, the cash burn now, and they don't feel like they can sit in the trench an extra 90 days on principle to work through this transaction and actually get the full value of their invoice as they have earned. And I think that that's just another way of identifying what you're talking about is that we weren't pre-active in the beginning, and that happens over and over and over again to where when we're in the moment to do something that is going to take time or that is more strategic in nature, it feels nearly impossible. It's because we've almost set the stage for ourselves now where our options are so limited, to stick that out for an extra 90 days doesn't seem realistic.
[00:07:33.460] - Chris
Yeah, it's hard to... Because I think everything he suggested, ultimately, is it effective in any one project? Well, yeah, potentially. If you started that project, having put all of these things in place, but really, it's a part of the system. Yeah, exactly. It's a part of your operating process that has to be augmented. He's talking about assignment of benefits or assignment of insurance rights. Well, that's probably going to involve you meeting with an attorney. Based on your state, it may require you to redo your contracts in a specific way, or some of these other documentation principles he talks about, well, that's going to require you to augment your mitigation process outline. It potentially means if you have any training that you've developed that's documented, it's going to require you to update your documentation. And I think a lot of times when somebody is struggling with their collections, they've got a million dollars in AR that they're struggling to collect this 90 days or people's cash flow is they're in crisis at some level. Oftentimes, that's bleeding over into their personal life. It's bleeding into the interpersonal relationships they have across the team. Everybody starts to feel that stress, and then everybody starts to perform more poorly in the midst of that stress.
[00:08:51.990] - Chris
And so the idea of optimizing our process, it's like the picture that comes to my mind is that Maslow's-Yeah, exactly. Hierarchical hierarchy of needs. It feels like some of the things, frankly, that we teach on, and then a lot of this stuff that Ed has been hammering on across the industry, it is incredibly important. And yet, I think at times people are, and we've been here, certainly. Oh, there's times in our floodlight business where we're stuck trying to put the fundamentals in place, the foundation. It's almost impossible in that same moment to be thinking in that higher order of thing.
[00:09:25.860] - Brandon
How is this going to affect our business in a week, a month, six months, It's next year? Yeah. No, I think you're right.
[00:09:31.980] - Chris
It's like you really have to create space for it. And I think, too, a lot of the people that come to these shows, a lot of the business we work with, when we first start working with them, they don't even have a basic weekly meeting cadence that they adhere to. Everybody will say, Oh, we have this meeting or that. But if something comes up, if we got all our team out in the field, well, then we're not going to do it this week. But we'll do it next. That's more often what we encounter is that people don't have discipline or consistency with a lot of their meeting cadences and reporting structure and stuff like that. So you add that to the mix.
[00:10:06.850] - Brandon
Well, I think it boils down to if you own your business or you're a key leader, key contributor to the organization, I think you got to ask yourself, how much time during the week are you spending on these more strategic items? And I think just to come up with a basic definition, when we say strategic, these things that are designed to enhance the scalability and consistency of business, but may not yield the result right now. You're going to have to work to put this thing in place knowing that your organization will benefit from this on the long term. And I think that most of us, if we're honest, and we're not susceptible to this, we fight with this commonly is, if you're honest, I think the challenge is if we look at our calendar time span, we just released an episode, really, that talked about this. Very little time is protected to be working on the business, and working on the business often is developing and investing energy in these strategic initiatives that will yield results long term. That's what it boils down to.
[00:11:10.170] - Chris
That just points back to this episode that we just came out with, recently.Exactly.We were talking about what's the value of your time, right? Yeah.
[00:11:16.410] - Brandon
I think ultimately also what it did was it reminded me just because of the quality and the tactical benefit of what he was talking about is, Ed's got to get back on the show. We cornered him because it's time to a deep dive into this stuff that he was talking about because, man, it's just massive. It was a huge reminder for me how much we're missing the ball on these fundamental things that allow us as an industry to protect our income. It's like you see this. I think for a while we saw it in the roofing industry at large. I think every trade group, every industry in general, you make this comment that there's like 80 % of the vendors or service providers are racing to the lowest price. Oh, Eric Sprag. And he was He was even going to talk on preparing our frontline techs. And he was like, 80% of the companies in this industry are going to fight for the lowest price. And then there's going to be 20 that hold the line and fight for the highest quality clients. And I think something very similar is happening in regard to our invoicing.
[00:12:16.590] - Brandon
It's like costs are skyrocketing right now. We are faced with just a crazy inflation. Everything from labor hours to materials are climbing. We can't be fixed or static in our pricing. Our pricing is It's customizable. We are a contractor, and price fixing is illegal. It doesn't exist on document, right? So I think in general, we've got to get more of us that have the time, that have the energy that we're investing in these strategic initiatives because it allows more leaders and business owners to unify that voice of, We're not going to race to the bottom. We're not going to allow you to drive our price. We're going to produce a price that allows us at profit to be able to produce a differentiated customer experience, It's a period. And I think that's really what Ed is promoting. And I think sometimes that can get lost. Anyways, we're going to get him back on and spend as long as he'll give us diving into this topic.
[00:13:10.470] - Chris
It was interesting, too. It was the first time I've heard him, and I'm sure he has talked about another venue recently, but he was pretty excited about this concept of tortuous interference. Yeah, that was really interesting. And starting to identify some legal precedence. He's super stoked that this may be a way to push back that tide a bit in terms of There's an imbalance between carrier control and the role of the contractor. Our relationship, of course, we've all talked about this many, many times. Our relationship, outside of the whole TPA thing where we make some contractual agreements with them, our relationship is to our customer, the homeowner or the Corporation, the building owner, property owner, whatever that we're working with. I think every single one of us has experienced scenarios, at least once, if not routinely, where adjusters or other carrier personnel have made some advisory comment to the policy holder like, Hey, you should think about using these people instead, or they've made some comment about our pricing or what we're trying to charge them, and that stuff. And of course, all of us have felt firsthand how that completely corrupts the relationship. That adjuster is seen as a perceived person of authority.
[00:14:28.650] - Chris
And yet, of course, and oftentimes Sometimes that adjuster has absolutely zero domain expertise.
[00:14:33.880] - Brandon
Oh, correct. Yeah. And they certainly don't have the authority to speak to your pricing structure.
[00:14:39.010] - Chris
Of course not. You know what I mean? Yeah. That talk was... It was powerful. It was really, really amazing. And I think what I love about Ed and what I know we respect about him is he has really... He's invested himself so fully in the restoration space. He understands the language of it. He understands the scope of work. He understands all of this stuff really intimately. Yeah.
[00:15:00.690] - Brandon
I think that's going to be a really great future show. And I think anybody that's had an opportunity to listen to Ed Cross talk about these topics, I think you just alluded to it, but one of the things that's so powerful is he's the one that's the guy on the ground that's going to court.
[00:15:16.780] - Chris
Yeah, doing the thing.
[00:15:17.880] - Brandon
With these things. And so it's not his opinion. This is him in often scenarios where he is legally going through the process to support and prove that what he's saying is validated and terms of contract law, insurance law. These are not opinions. And so it just makes him such a powerful influence and a powerful educator for us as restorers for those things that really most of us just don't really have a strong grasp on or what the cause is on these things that we're experiencing in terms of our pricing and our ability to collect and all the things.
[00:15:51.690] - Chris
Okay, so I've got a little association I have to share that I have for Ed Cross. Okay. So I'm a huge fan of Billy Bob Thornton. Okay. Okay? So Billy Bob Thornton, anybody that's familiar with him, if you're not, Google him, Billy Bob Thornton. He did a show, and he's actually done quite a few legal shows. This is a bit of a typecast thing that has become for him. One, he's this slender, wiry, really healthy-looking guy, built like an ultra runner. Anyway, as I was watching Ed in this talk, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, Billy Bob. So one of the recent TV shows, series that Billy Bob Thornton did, it's fantastic, is this show called Goliath. Yeah. And he's this passionate trial attorney that goes after every season. Yeah, exactly. Every season is him leading this class action lawsuit against these behemoth offenders. That's awesome. Yeah. And industry Titans. Yeah. And I thought of that association when he was up there, because anybody has watched Ed, he's passionate. Oh, undoubtedly. When he opens his mouth, all of that stuff has been thought through 5,000 times before he said it. And so he's able to bring the emotion and the passion to it.
[00:17:02.060] - Brandon
And he often is the guy sticking up for the little guy in terms of context of power and money. He is. Carriers, hands down, they are the influencers of our industry. They have all the power and all the money. And so I think it is true. It's like what Ed is trying to arm us with is these tools that give us a fighting chance against Goliath.
[00:17:22.760] - Chris
It's incredible we have somebody of his caliber and charisma and professional demeanor. He's just super pro. So that was cool. It was great to see him. What else? What else did we do this week?
[00:17:34.900] - Brandon
It's funny. There was in general, there was a theme that I felt like we kept running into. And I don't know if it deviates too far from this Ed cross conversation, but we ran into an old client that we've... I shouldn't say old, they're still our client. We've had a relationship with them now since, gosh, probably 2021, maybe 2022.
[00:17:55.870] - Chris
Yes. Some of the ones we had dinner with last night.
[00:17:58.150] - Brandon
Yeah. So we go It's like catch up, right? They're actually working with one of the other consultants on our team, and they have this great working relationship.They were O.
[00:18:06.920] - Chris
G.they're O. G.they've been with us since early days.
[00:18:08.740] - Brandon
Yeah, they've been around a long time, and it was so fun to catch up with them because we watched as they were living proof of this concept or this idea of elevating themselves so that they began working on their business and how it just has translated into their ability to grow, their ability to manage workflow. And one of the things that we were making some jokes about is our boy there, in the early phases of our relationship, his wife, in this particular case, marketing, she was the one leading their BD, and she was crushing. I mean, she was adopting all these duck soup practices and doing all these things. And so she's out crushing and out bringing in these new relationships. And he really became the bottleneck for a moment, emotionally and mentally, where he was trying to manage like, oh, my gosh, all this work is coming in. And it was because he was still so engaged in the trench. He was in doing the work, and it was so hard for him to get high enough to look down on what was happening and make decisions more on strategy. It was more of like, I can only be in so many places at once, right?
[00:19:13.580] - Brandon
Like a lot of limiting behaviors. Again, this is not dissing him. All of us wrestle with this in different phases.
[00:19:19.000] - Chris
We run into this with every-All the time. It is important to say they're in the beginning of their heroic journey in a lot of ways. For sure. Smaller company, rapidly growing. But yeah, no, it's I mean, I remember a session that we had with them where she was like, Hey, he's telling me to stop selling. We're like, Dude, no, that's not the answer. And this is so common, actually, amongst small businesses, where they get a great salesperson or their reputation starts to catch up with them in a positive way, and they feel like, Gosh, I have to shut off this faucet. We don't have the people or we don't have the wherewithal to do this stuff. And I think at the end of the day, everybody learns at some point, you got to make hay while the sun's out. You've got to find a way to adapt and overcome and modulate your systems and scale things up and figure out a way to service the businesses coming through your door, not do this constant gas pedal, break pedal, gas pedal, break pedal.
[00:20:13.010] - Brandon
And they've done it. They've made those shifts. They now work on the business, especially the husband in the situation who's really keyed in on... He was telling us how many times he had been out in the field to be part of production. He used to be on all of it.
[00:20:29.100] - Chris
He used to scope it or do whatever. He's down to he sees 20% of jobs.
[00:20:32.300] - Brandon
20% of their job flow. He's got some direct hand in, and that's a major change from 100% from where they started. And so it's just, again, it's this really cool opportunity over time to watch these more strategic behaviors and a commitment to working on the business bear the fruit. And it doesn't happen in week one or month one or six months often. It takes time. And they were just talking about this year's monsoon season and talking about this as they prep for fall and winter and all these things. And he's like, he's calm.
[00:21:04.070] - Chris
Well, and I could also tell that you could just tell that the dynamic between them as husband and wife was healthy. Of course, marriage is hard for everybody. But you could just tell that there weren't any resentments that had built up. There wasn't a lot of strife between them.
[00:21:18.710] - Brandon
Yeah, I mean, she was making comments about his participationInvolved with the kids.with the kids every night. And it's like, dude, that doesn't happen if you're drowning in your business. That's not the feedback that you hear from partners and spouses when someone's drowning in their business. And so that was just... I mean, it was rewarding because we just get so proud of them. They're like our little brothers and sister, but I just made me so proud for them and just convicted on what we do as consultants and all these educators and trainers and partners in the industry trying to serve restorers. That's why. It's like when we all can find a way to contribute in a meaningful way to help rearrange some of our default thought patterns, you end up helping people turn their most valuable asset into something that's working for them instead of against them. I love seeing that. It makes the grind worthwhile. And most importantly, it's just awesome to see the fruit of their labor and changing what they get to experience. So I thought that was great. I always love that stuff. Another thing that I thought was really interesting, and actually part of the Ed conversation kicked it off, was unity.
[00:22:26.230] - Brandon
One of the things that Ed is going to, regardless of what he's doing, bring up often is his connection to RIA and membership and the value in that. And what it just got me thinking about was the fact that we are such huge supporters of RIA because we do believe it's one of the few platforms for us as restorers to begin unifying our voice.
[00:22:47.030] - Chris
Oh, dear Lord. Well, this is the real deal, folks.
[00:22:50.750] - Brandon
Yeah, that's right. You're getting airport 101.
[00:22:52.810] - Chris
We're going to hit pause here, hopefully ride this out.Oh, there we go.Oh, there we go. That's relief.
[00:22:58.740] - Brandon
So anyway, we're We're committed to RAA because we feel like in many ways, that is an industry unifier. And the more unified our voice is, the more weight it carries, the more value and more alignment that we're able to get in the way that we want to serve our client and what the industry can afford and pay us, all the things. What it got me thinking about was, as we were running around, a big part of what we were able to do is just see our friends that are other service providers in the industry, thinking about our guys, Larry and Eric, in terms of tech U, and I'm thinking about we got a chance to finally get some more FaceTime with Lane over at Clean Claims, and obviously the Know-how team. And one of the things I just kept thinking and experiencing over and over again is, as helpers to the industry, we all have our niche, right? We all have this space based on background competency, whatever that we're centered in on, and how each one of us can get a little frustrated sometimes because the ability for the contractor to listen, learn, engage, and execute on what we're trying to help or provide service on is limited.
[00:24:06.980] - Brandon
Going back to your hierarchy of needs, right? Edge was talking about. I think what all of us do in spurts is that we'll tend to chase a shiny thing thinking, Oh, well, if we help the contractor solve that, they'll be able to hear this better, and we'll be able to get traction in the business better here. I think just like us as restores, we need to be more unified. I think there's a real opportunity for us as service providers to be more unified, understanding the complexities of the contractor's need and being able to roll into an event or a program and really bring in the best of the best in their area of expertise and help these contractors really net gain, really come out on the other side and have some new momentum, have some new gains in how they operate their business and build their business. I guess where I'm going with that is that if you're a contractor We're not splitting atoms. We dry things based on a very specific, I heard, CRC-driven standard. We rebuild things based on permitting and local state laws and standards, like engineering. It's like we're not making this shit up.
[00:25:17.720] - Brandon
No. And when it comes to doing the thing, at the end of the day, if you're doing it the correct way, we're all essentially doing it pretty much the same. Where we're different is how we interact with our people, the customer experience that we provide, all those things, right? But it's not trade secret. One of the things that I think we do as service providers is the same as restorers is we get caught in this idea of limited thinking.
[00:25:45.610] - Chris
It's scarcity thinking. It's scarcity thinking. I'm afraid if I collaborate with them, that's somehow going to take away from my opportunity.
[00:25:54.180] - Brandon
Exactly. And then if we're honest about our service delivery, if you look at your own business and just say, Okay, take stock of what you can do well. Identify maybe where you've got some holes, and then think to yourself, Is there another restore that maybe is more gifted or strength than that because that's where they came up or it's how they started their company? And then could you guys mutually work together to reap the benefit of each other's strengths? Or is someone willing, if they're not in your market, for example, maybe they're a couple of borders over, could you connect with them and reciprocate and providing value in the sense of, Hey, I share with you what we're really good at. You share me what you're really good at. And now we're two contractors setting a higher standard in our individual markets. I think it's so funny how fractioned we are. And I think it's funny that at the end of the day, if we put the scarcity mindset aside and we lean in to shoring up our strengths through relationship and unity with our peers, I think it would all do better. And then we start taking action towards unifying the industry so that when people, when Goliath wants to push back on us, we all push back against it instead of the one lonely guy on that week trying to battle for his money on Friday morning.
[00:27:06.370] - Brandon
I agree. That was the theme I felt like you and I were running into a lot while we've been here at the experience. And that's not formally. That wasn't set as part of the agenda. It's just the people we were interacting with, I think.
[00:27:21.050] - Chris
Liftify. Com/bloodlight. You've heard Brandon and I talk a bunch of times about the importance of Google reviews. Maybe even heard our episode with Zack Garrett, the CEO and founder. Recency, consistency, two of the most important things when it comes to maximizing the benefit from your Google reviews. Why not use an outside partner? Liftify is targeting 20 to 25 % conversion, right? So If you do a thousand jobs a year, you ought to be adding right now 200 to 250 reviews a year, every single year. If you're not doing that, you owe it to yourself to get a free demo from liftify. Com. See their system, see how it works, see how affordable it is. I promise you, you'll thank us. Liftify.
[00:28:04.200] - Brandon
Com/bloodlight.
[00:28:05.340] - Brandon
We spend a lot of money and a lot of attention trying to get that first call. And one of the things that we do once it happens is sometimes we leave it to chance, right? Who picks up the phone? How do they respond? How do they walk that client into a relationship with us? Well, one of the benefits of partnering with a team like answerforce. Com is we can systemize that, we can make it more consistent. We can also have backup for when our teams need that help. Somebody goes on vacation, somebody's out sick. We get a storm search, we get cat event. All sorts of things can have an impact on how we receive that client. But the most important thing is they need to know that they've chosen the right team. And so answerforce. Com can support you, be a bolt on partner to help you consistently produce an awesome onboarding experience with that first call with your client. So answerforce. Com/bloodlight.
[00:28:56.550] - Brandon
That's great.
[00:28:57.860] - Chris
Cnr magazine, we're friends with all the at CNR, Michelle and her team, they do a great job of keeping their ear to the ground and reporting all the important information from our industry. You want to stay up on all the M&A activity and what the latest best practices are for selling your company successfully. She's got that. Great articles about all the four quadrants of our business. Cnr is constantly pushing out great material and leveraging great writers and subject matter experts in our industry. It is the water-cooler of our industry. So if you're not subscribed, go to cnrmagazine. Com cnrmagazine. Com. Follow them on LinkedIn. Follow Michelle on LinkedIn. Trust us, if you're trying to stay on top of everything happening in the industry, your best destination is cnrmagazine. Com.
[00:29:41.280] - Brandon
You guys, many of you have already heard about Actionable Insights and the training and the technical expertise that they bring to the industry. But how many of you are already leveraging the Actionable Insights profile for Xactimate? That's the game changer. It's essentially an AI tool that's walking alongside side of you as you write your estimate, bringing things to your attention that should be added, that could be considered. All of them items that increase our profitability, increase the effectiveness and the consistency of that scope. And it can do anything from helping a new team member assimilate some estimating best practices. And it also helps the grizzled vets add back that few % that we've just forgot over time. So actionableinsights, getinsights. Org/ floodlight, and take a look at what the Actionable Insights Xactimate profile could be doing for you and your team.
[00:30:35.320] - Chris
I want to talk about leadership. It's okay if we tease a little bit this venture we're working on. I mean, the book is out.
[00:30:43.620] - Brandon
I don't know. It's not out.
[00:30:45.470] - Chris
Well, there was copies floating around here.
[00:30:47.590] - Brandon
Yeah, it's not public yet. Okay.
[00:30:51.250] - Chris
Well, but no, there's some link. Okay, listen, I'm going to poke the bear a little bit. He's right in the line.
[00:30:54.960] - Brandon
Be careful, dog.
[00:30:56.000] - Chris
I wrote the forward, you wrote the back. Yeah, what did he call it? The back portion of the book, I don't know, the quote. We've been in a conversation with Knowhow, and Knowhow is always collaborating with lots of people in the industry, right? Yeah, epic. I mean, Layton and Travis and their team are always doing cool stuff, value-added. They're definitely one of those brands that we want to be more like in the sense of give, give, give, give, give talking about the outcomes and the data that's come out of that. So they have a variety of stuff that they do. But one of the projects coming out is a leadership focus of a new book. They had an early version, an early release version at the experience. Some people listening to this will have gotten a copy of that called Building Leaders. And I think we're really excited about having some engagement on that project because in a lot of ways, I think leadership is probably the biggest gap for our industry. Yeah. And of course, it's not just true of restoration. I think most small businesses and a lot of trade businesses, they originate out of the tradecraft, the ability to make or do or repair or whatever this thing that many of us got into the business because of that tradecraft versus our business acumen or our experience leading people.
[00:32:24.290] - Chris
We were really good at doing the thing and possibly good at the customer experience, the customer-facing side as well, likely. But then the leadership is just a thing we fall into. Like, then, okay, now, how do I build a team? Okay, how do I get my team all rowing in the same direction? All these leadership principles. Like, many of us are never taught that. And even those of us who went to university or some post high school education.
[00:32:48.280] - Brandon
Did you think went to university?
[00:32:49.860] - Chris
College, university.
[00:32:50.450] - Brandon
You've been hanging out with Canadians.
[00:32:51.590] - Chris
I have been hanging out with Canadians. That's so funny. Layton would be proud. I know. I know. I know. I threw that in there for you, buddy. But I think most of us, if we're honest, we got very little leadership training or education, even if we got a business degree at a school somewhere. And so I think it's long overdue in some ways. I think we've been mastermining ourselves at Floodlight about how do we teach these principles in such a way that we can move through the desperation brain that people often come to us with and get the basics in place so we can start to really develop people's leadership competency because Because it's actually the thing that's driving all of our struggles and problems within our businesses, within this industry. All of it. All of it. Our ability to recruit well, our ability to retain that talent, our ability to grow people up through the ranks of our business and create an opportunity for them, our ability to service our clients well. Leadership is at the very center of all of it. And I, personally, I think as we've been building Floodlight, I feel like in a lot of ways, there's been this whole new layer.
[00:34:03.450] - Chris
I was talking to somebody about just the role of a consultant, and how every now and then, I'll see people online or in the Facebook groups dismissing the consultants and coaches. In any industry. Oh, the gurus. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, watch out for them because you're better off talking to other people, other business owners. Yeah. And it's like, well, okay, does your business owner buddy have visibility into dozens of other companies around the country like your business?
[00:34:33.110] - Brandon
That are succeeding at a high level.
[00:34:34.600] - Chris
Do any of your peers have that visibility into a restoration company? The answer for most is no, not even. Yeah. And so I think I feel like in many ways, the last several years of us running Floodlight has introduced this whole new demand on leadership, because now, instead of it, you and I just focusing on our team, now, in a lot of ways, we're seeing and responding to team terms and situations of different sizes, of different growth rates, different mixes of residential and commercial, different maturity of sales teams, or a complete and total lack of direct sales operations. And I was just thinking about how it's challenging my own leadership in a completely new way. And then, of course, building a consulting company is a different business than when we were building restoration companies.
[00:35:28.680] - Brandon
I think, too, what it does is this eye-opening realization that it's so universal in nature and that it's something that will pop up over and over because as you scale, as your business changes, the demand of leadership, the requirement of leadership competency, and the level of that leadership competency literally changes. We have clients that are in situations where they're developing full-blown C-suites because they're multi-market operators. They have six, seven plus locations, all these things. And so they have regional management, and they have a C-suite. It's like, then there's the guy or gal that has just become a... They're leaving the truck in a truck status where they're trying to onboard employees. And so their own leadership competency is changing. There is a universal demand for understanding how in your organization, you will create a pipeline of leaders and leadership capable candidates. Otherwise, you'll never be able to maximize what your dream or vision is. You'll never be able to realize it, and you'll never be able to maximize what opportunities your company actually has access to, because there's only so much we can do when there's only one key contributor to the entire organization. It's just not feasible.
[00:36:48.910] - Brandon
I think one of the things that we see over and over when we start partnering with companies is going back to leaders that don't have any time to work on their business, so they can't do any of the things that we're talking about. But I think on top of that, it's like you see all this want, and they're like, Oh, my gosh, that would be great. I'd love to experience that. I want to participate in that. But they literally... There's no more room in the clock. There's nowhere else that they can commit time unless we're talking about burning 20 hours of work days. But then it's like, Okay, well, then before we do this other stuff, we're going to have to find some talent.
[00:37:25.250] - Chris
We're going to have some talent to create that.
[00:37:26.820] - Brandon
We're going to bring some people in to create the capacity. To create the capacity. Yeah, that's right. And so I think, again, as people try to move out of desperation, this idea that I need to begin identifying how I'm going to build leaders, how I'm going to train people, how I'm going to create succession planning in my company. And I think what you're referring to, the leader builder, and I, gosh, you're probably going to get us in trouble, Chris. I'm going to blame you. No, I'm not. You're going to be my scapegoat. It's all good. This thing is coming. You guys will know more about it. The Know-how team will be leading that communication here in probably the next month. But I think, yes, I think Yes. I think Leighton and his team is leading the charge on something really unique here, and obviously we're excited to be a major contributor and partner in that.
[00:38:09.750] - Chris
Okay, so we'll leave the know-how thing behind here for the moment. I had an experience with Wayne this last week, and I'm in the process of writing an article on it for CNR, and I just thought, Oh, yeah. I want to process it because it is related to this subject, and it's fresh for me. And I think I hadn't, to be honest, I hadn't... It's been a long time anyway, since I really thought about this principle, and Wayne did such a beautiful job. In fact, I'm so glad I got a recording of it. Because so many of my conversations with Wayne, they used to be FaceTime, and I get into this conversation, and Wayne is just in the pocket it, and I'm just thinking, God, I wish I'd recorded this right. Anyway, so we almost never have a conversation now that's not recorded. But Wayne, we had a scenario within the team a couple of weeks ago where I had an upcoming webinar, and I needed creative material for it. And we have an in-house creative team, which is awesome and a huge force multiplier for us. And I think when we were smaller, less clients, less travel, less all of this stuff, we had the ability to really very quickly, I could throw something on Janna, Hey, can you put this together for me?
[00:39:18.490] - Brandon
Yeah, spin it up.
[00:39:19.230] - Chris
And sometimes even same day, Hey, I need this thing for this thing this afternoon. Yeah. And I got really accustomed to that. But then as the team has grown and as Wayne has taken over this internal operational leadership role, I have continued in that thing of, oh, well, I can just get this to Janna and she'll throw it together for me. The team will make it happen. Yeah. I need this in an hour. I need this this afternoon. I need this tomorrow. That thing. And in my own judgment, because I'm not entirely inexperienced in this stuff, I'm coming at it from, this will only take an hour, or this will only take two hours. And let's just assume I'm right in my judgment. So assuming I'm right, I'm I'm like, I know we can do this, therefore, let's do it. It's reasonable. Let's do it. I have this need. We have a team that can do this. We have the time. And so I make all of these snap judgments. And then I previously, before my first conversation with Wayne, which I won't get into today.Chuck it over your shoulder.Oh, yeah. I just send it directly to Janna.
[00:40:19.640] - Chris
And then later Wayne would come back to me like, Hey, bro. In case you didn't remember, we have an org chart here. We have a process. We have a system here that we put in place that, oh, by the way, you're a co-owner in. We call it teaching each other how to buy from each other.Oh, gosh.Yeah. Anyway, so that was previous misdeeds on my part. But so anyway, we had this situation a couple of weeks ago where I had this webinar, I think the next day, I needed a 12-hour turnaround. I felt like it was not only justified, needed, but we can do it. It should only take X number of time. And Wayne told me no. And to To be honest, internally, it really pissed me off at first, and I was annoyed. I had this story in my head about why Wayne ought to be supporting me in getting this last minute thing done. I was stuck on the fact that we can do this, so why won't you? In my head. And then I ultimately was able to adapt and overcome. I made the deck myself, and it was fine, and it worked.
[00:41:24.690] - Chris
And I had old collateral I could use from other things. I was able to... And people were none the As an owner, though, I'm thinking about all the owners listening right now and saying, wait a minute, you had an employee tell you as the owner, no. I have a one-year-old employee that told me no.
[00:41:40.700] - Brandon
That's the best part of this.
[00:41:42.240] - Chris
And of course, now Wayne is not just any employee. That's a big part of the story. But my point is that I was feeling all those natural feelings of indignance, frustration, irritation, like, Bro, I own half of this company, man, and I need to freaking do something here for me. But then after I figured it out and I had a night to sleep on it, the next day, in fact, actually, I'm trying to think exactly how this went down, but I basically... Wayne followed up to me like, Hey, are you good? Were you able to figure it out? I said, Yes. He said, Well, let's talk about this. I'll put some time on my calendar. Let's talk about it Thursday morning and just review the process. And I want to talk about what happened more big picture. This is Wayne instigating this conversation.
[00:42:27.220] - Brandon
Yeah, just so we're clear. Yeah, we're real blessed, and we know it. Yeah, of course.
[00:42:31.400] - Chris
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so anyway, long story short, Wayne books this 90 minutes session for us on Thursday to talk. Actually, when I saw the appointment setting, I'm like, God, you know what? I don't need 90 minutes for this. I know what happened here. I get what you're trying to do. I was irritated at first. I was able to figure it out, blah, blah, blah. I just didn't think there was much for us to talk about. So we get into this meeting, and we end up using the whole 90 minutes.
[00:42:56.100] - Brandon
Of course.
[00:42:57.440] - Chris
I actually modified the calendar event to 30 minutes. I'm like, Dude, we don't need 90, which was also a misdeed on my part from a leadership standpoint. But anyway, we get in this conversation, and Wayne says to me, he said, Listen, I really want you to understand where I'm coming from and why I did that. Because I can understand why you might have been frustrated. It's just like, but first of all, just start with, Tell me why you were frustrated and what was going on for you. So he wanted to hear my side of the story. And I said, Well, look, man, I knew that you could do this. I knew from my perspective, there was no way that Janna didn't have the time to do this thing for me because it should only take about an hour. I gave really explicit... I actually recorded a video with my requirements. Here's what I want it to look like. Here's the force images I need. I was pretty explicit in my directions. I knew this would be about an hour. And he said, Well, let me ask you a question, man. With all the things we have going, I'm not going to argue with you.
[00:43:54.010] - Chris
I think you're right. I think Janna could have done it. He said, But let me ask you a question. Does that necessarily mean that she should do it and we should have her do it? Let's just agree that she could have. But is it possible that it wasn't the right thing for me to assign that task to her? And all of a sudden, my mind started to open up, and I'm realizing way more broadly, besides just systems and processes, I started to catch on to what Wayne was actually doing there. And he said, Listen, man, here's what I mean. He's like, We got the website rebuild we're working on. We got this. We have We have upcoming webinars. We have conferences that you guys are at. We have collateral we're building for this. We've got partnerships that were real big stuff. And he said, In the midst of that, man, I have the hammer down on our creative team. I'm demanding a lot from them. He said, So when you give me this 12-hour request, this next day request, when we already have systems and processes in for submitting a need, I've already taught you how to buy from our creative department when you need something.
[00:44:59.860] - Chris
It's like, what happens to my relationship to our creative team when I'm being very demanding, I'm holding them tightly accountable to a lot of different initiatives? And then I've got to throw this little thing right in the middle of all of it and expect I'm going to do a great job on this and turn it around immediately and still deliver on everything else I've tasked them with.
[00:45:20.910] - Brandon
And show them in action that it's okay for some of us to not follow the rules. Yes. The process.
[00:45:27.110] - Chris
That too? Yes. Yeah. And he's like, so that's What's my thinking is I have to be very judicious with the last minute things that I task them with, because otherwise, I'm going to lose their respect. I'm going to lose their trust. I'm going to lose my ability to hold them accountable to the things that are really important, that all of us have agreed are really important. He said, So it's like there's this dance that I'm having to do, and I need your help in, of, yeah, there's a ton of things we can do. Could I have thrown this on Janice's plate? Totally could have. Could she have done it? Yeah. What's the collateral damage, though? So it's, oh, my God, here's my employee. It's freaking 14 years younger than me also. And I'm getting a master class in leadership. But I bring this up because that whole can versus should. I think this is a part of leadership that frankly eludes me a lot of the time. I lose track of it. I think I get stuck in the leadership frame of me do the things I'm good at and hire people do the other things.
[00:46:29.510] - Chris
Well, Well, okay, that's layer one. Yeah. Okay. I've pretty much got on the other side of that. But then I think what my leadership journey that I'm on, clearly, as evidence by this conversation with Wayne, is I have to develop more of a thoughtfulness and a pause break, because now that I've got all this capacity, we have all this capacity as a team. I mean, we have some really incredible resources between our consultants and the rest of our corporate team. There's a lot we can. There's a lot of capacity for can. But it's like as a leader stepping back and just saying, okay, hold on, what is this thing? If I sling this over my shoulder and I demand assistance with this, I demand somebody else do this, what is all the collateral impact of that? What's the downstream impact of me demanding this thing to be done, creating that momentary distraction. And what does that do? And I think the other thing Wayne was hitting on, and I'm not doing a great job of representing his part of the conversation, but I think Wayne was also a very The real part of it is he's really trying to manage and steward his relationship.
[00:47:35.300] - Chris
Yeah, very much so. To Janna and the rest of the creative team.
[00:47:38.360] - Brandon
It's like the trust and respect is earned. It's not guaranteed, and he's living that out.
[00:47:43.080] - Chris
And if we're constantly, and I've been so guilty of this at different times in different businesses that I've owned and led. I've been so guilty of this of just like, Hey, your job is to do things for me. I like you. I'm not an unappreciative guy, but it's like I can very easily get in the box using Using that leadership and self-deception, I can get in this box where everybody else, even though I don't typically think of people as objects, I love people, I want to treat people well, I want to be a good person. But I can get in this mindset where I'm so hyper-focused on what's the opportunity in front of me that I just chuck things over my shoulder and I expect my employees, these labor units around me. Can it be done? Okay, then do it. Okay, I'm going to chuck it over my shoulder and let my team do it. That's what I hired them for. And I think that that loses or I miss sometimes the impact on the relationship. Because I'm also coming to this place of I'm a nice guy. I take care of people.We.
[00:48:39.650] - Brandon
Pay them well.We.
[00:48:40.470] - Chris
Do that. Yeah, we do. Yeah, you know? And we have all these other places where I know we intentionally take care of folks, that in some of that tasking and project management and capacity management that I should be engaged in as a leader, I throw the capacity management out. I think that's the thing that Wayne was hidden on, is this is a very real part of leadership. He takes it very seriously.
[00:49:05.570] - Brandon
Very seriously. And he's very skilled at it.
[00:49:07.760] - Chris
Very skilled. Yeah. But there's an amount of reflection. I have to create space for leadership for me to consider and think about these things. And I don't do that often.
[00:49:23.480] - Brandon
Well, and I think the other thing that you're pointing out, and then we'll probably need to land the plane because this plane is getting ready to board. But I think one of the things, too, that you're highlighting is this concept of just because we can doesn't mean we should. And I think if we go all the way back to where we started our conversation, this rabbit trails from the experience is, Ed's challenge, It was because we have business owners that keep doing the things they can and maybe some of those things they shouldn't be, and that's why they don't have the capacity to work on their business, right? And so I think the other thing that you're highlighting that's really interesting, and we should all take a a little bit more time to think about, is that difference between can and should, especially when it comes to managing our time as owners and what we're willing to commit to or not commit to. There was a lot in what you just impact. I think that story is chuck full of operational lessons for us to consider as leaders. It's interesting, man. It's like never stop learning.
[00:50:21.680] - Brandon
Don't ever stop. It's humbling.
[00:50:23.620] - Chris
It's really humbling. We were talking with this mentor of ours who runs a very, very big consulting company outside of our industry. And it's his third.
[00:50:32.130] - Brandon
Third multimillion dollar.
[00:50:34.270] - Chris
I think one of the interesting mantras that he talks about relative to the client relationship is, Hey, I'm not your guru. I'm not your guru. I don't even necessarily know more than you. It's like, I'm not a subject matter expert in all areas, and you are the pupil. That is not the nature of a consulting relationship. And I think you and I have learned that intuitively over the last several years.
[00:50:56.760] - Brandon
But it is so much more about this relationship of...
[00:51:02.460] - Chris
I have a very hard time identifying my blind spots by myself. I can learn vicariously through other people's stories. This is one of the reasons why I love podcasts. I know you do, too. Why I think many of the people that are listening to Head Hard and Boots do is that at times you get lucky and you'll hear something and it'll connect with you. Like, oh, shit, I struggled with that, too.
[00:51:24.930] - Brandon
Oh, shit.
[00:51:27.200] - Chris
I just had that conversation with a downline employee. Or, Oh, I had a similar thing where I chucked a project over my shoulder without even giving that single ounce of thought to how this is going to impact my relationship and this other person's capacity, their well-being, their stress level. And so we have these moments where we can learn vicariously through others. But I think oftentimes it comes from these outside third-party partnerships, like a consultant or a coach, where they're just able to see something a little bit more clearly than me because they don't have the same maybe emotional attachment to to that problem or that situation.
[00:52:02.100] - Brandon
And they're at the appropriate level of relationship with you to be a voice of that. I think Wayne is pretty special in terms of his understanding of high-level leadership and competency. He's very disciplined in his approach to leading up the chain. And so it does give him a voice that's not probably super normal inside an organization. But in a lot of cases, owners, key leaders, they need that outside person that they can be vulnerable with, that they can be honest with, and allow to speak to those blind spots that they're inevitably finding, because we all have them, period. That's the non-ecoachable, right?
[00:52:36.580] - Chris
Dude, this is just such a cool conversation because what this also touches on is that Jim Dethmer principle, right? Conscious leadership, right? This idea that when we get feedback from an employee-Oh, yeah.
[00:52:48.890] - Brandon
I know where you're going.
[00:52:49.550] - Chris
As leaders, we are so prone to filtering that feedback based on time and grade that that person has in our business or in the industry, their age, their length of experience, their talent level, their pay scale. When somebody from our company comes to us and says, Hey, particularly if it's critical, right? It's like, Hey, I think you need to do this, or, We need to do more of that, or less of this, or whatever, is before we even consider the feedback, we filter based on that person's qualifications. That's right. And I think that's such a powerful thing to consider and to start to create some awareness around because what Jim Dethmer advocates for, and we're actually going to have somebody from Conscious Leadership Institute. That's right. They're going to be on the podcast soon.
[00:53:34.530] - Brandon
Yeah, that's right.
[00:53:35.160] - Chris
It's going to be freaking awesome. That'll be awesome. And I interviewed this guy. He's an advisor, former CEO of a few different companies. Nice. But anyway, one of the principles in Conscious Leadership is that when given any feedback, you first ask yourself, How is this true?
[00:53:48.890] - Brandon
Yeah, exactly.
[00:53:49.660] - Chris
Whereas instead, with the typical default filters we apply to feedback kits, we're rationalizing, Is this true? Is this true based on this person's credibility community, experience, level, talent, education, whatever? Man, I just found that incredibly powerful. Even in this conversation with Wayne, that has really helped me to start to change my mind frame when you give me feedback or anybody else does of like, okay, part of me feels really offended, defensive, all the things we feel. Somebody's poking at something that they believe somehow we've done poorly, not enough. We failed in some aspect of our delivery of that thing or our leadership around that thing. And there's this feeling of, well, who the hell are you? I think it's one of the gut reactions that sometimes comes out.
[00:54:36.530] - Brandon
Of course.
[00:54:37.620] - Chris
And that's a really huge area of growth for me just to be able to say, okay, well, hold on a second. I'm really pissed off about this, but or and, how is this true? How is this true? I've started to even use that with my wife. My wife will say something to me.
[00:54:54.580] - Brandon
It's hanging in the pocket.
[00:54:55.640] - Chris
I feel really offended by it. And I'm like, Man, I feel really offended. And my wife is not dumb, and my wife loves me. And so there's something here. I think that's the basis that Dethmer talks about. He's like, look, somebody wouldn't have mustard the courage to bring this to you if there wasn't something really here. That's awesome. What's real about this? Let me hang in that pocket. Let me let this simmer in this for a while.
[00:55:21.080] - Brandon
It's funny, man, because I almost think that's a good way to summarize the entire conversation. Yeah, maybe so, right? Go back to all these little rabbit trails, these individual moments, and ask yourself, what about this is true? What about this can I consider?
[00:55:34.720] - Chris
What about this is true for me?
[00:55:35.920] - Brandon
What about this can I apply or think about?Oh, boy.Okay..
[00:55:38.390] - Chris
Here we are. So anyway, what do we have coming up? I'm going to be a restoration affiliate. Got some great talks. In fact, I think the promo is already out.I think so, yeah.For it. I'm going to be giving a talk on bringing Ritz Carlton customer experience into restoration.We just got some fun.That'll be sweet. I've got some fun experiences with that and some methodology around that.I'm.
[00:55:57.960] - Brandon
Going to let you on that.I'm going to go hunting.Yeah.
[00:56:00.610] - Chris
You're going hunting.
[00:56:01.490] - Brandon
I'm going to be going to go in the woods for a while.
[00:56:02.800] - Chris
I'm going to be giving a talk about discovering a Freedom Point and building an exit-ready business. That'll be, I think, the general session, one of the general sessions. And then I'm also going to be talking about the golden question as it relates to pain solution selling and just the power of connecting our prospects with negative and stressful past experience that we've had with contractors, and then the concrete people, process and solutions that we've married up to those pain points and how powerful that can be to make those connections with our prospects to drive the sales process forward.
[00:56:35.470] - Brandon
That's going to be a really good event. That'll be fun.
[00:56:37.600] - Chris
Yeah, stoked. And then you and I are going to be at Micra in October. October. We've got some for all our Paul Davis fans out there of Head Hard and Boots. We're going to be at some key Paul Davis event in November. End of the Year summit there. That's going to be exciting. We've got another big Paul Davis group that we're going to be doing a leadership workshop with.
[00:56:58.660] - Brandon
And they're all killers.
[00:56:59.550] - Chris
That's going to be fun. Oh, dude. Those are the big things. I don't know. Is there anything else that...
[00:57:05.110] - Brandon
Let's go get on a plane and make our way back to Oregon.
[00:57:07.260] - Chris
I was ready to see your family. All right. Wow. There we go. Thanks, Dan. Thanks for listening. Until next time. We'll see you.
[00:57:15.050] - Brandon
All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots.
[00:57:20.210] - Chris
And if you're enjoying the show, if you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.
