[00:00:00.000] - Brandon
Hola. Yeah. How are you, amigo?
[00:00:02.240] - Chris
You know what? We're just talking about some Christmas vacation plans, and I'm getting more and more excited about taking a little break, turning the lights off here for a few days at a good old floodlight Headharden Boots headquarters here.
[00:00:15.370] - Brandon
This one's actually going to be released while we're on Christmas break.
[00:00:18.200] - Chris
Yeah. So we got a good show today. But hey, for those of you that are just now stumbling into Headharden Boots, and you're like, what is this about? Well, this is the founder's podcast for a Restoration Consulting Company. It's called Floodlight Consulting Group. Brandon and I are cofounders of that. And maybe this is timely, too, because it's end of year. A lot of people, whether you're a long-time listener or a first-time listener, you may have been thinking about consulting. Maybe you have friends or other business colleagues that have hired consultants for their business, and it's been a real force multiplier for them. Brandon and I, part of the inspiration for Floedlight was as we were coming up in the restoration industry, we got a lot of value out of hiring consultants and coaches. And Absolutely. So if this is something you've kicked around, you don't maybe have it all figured out, or you're just looking for a battle buddy, somebody to increase your bandwidth to help execute on big plans and objectives for 2025, that's a great way to think about consulting. And if you want to kick the tires on that, just go to floodlightgrp.
[00:01:19.860] - Chris
Com. It's pretty obvious where to click through for one on one consulting. And I will actually jump on the phone with you and we'll talk shop, get an idea of what you're trying to do, talk about consulting, what it costs. We'll have you take our health and value assessment, which is free. It's just a great way to get a concrete snapshot of the value of your business today, the condition of your company's health today, and then ultimately be able to chart progress and look back, hopefully at the end of 2025, and think, Holy cow. Boy, did we move the needle. So if that's your goal and you're looking for maybe a partner to want to know what it costs and how that whole thing works, go to floodlightgrp. Com. Our clients this year, shoot, man, they're going to do over a quarter billion in business here in the restoration industry. Starting to lean closer to the 300 mill. Tap into the wisdom of the crowd, floodlightgrp. Com. Now, let's dive in with a great chat with Michelle Blevins, one of our great friends in the industry.
[00:02:15.740] - Brandon
We get a little year in review.
[00:02:18.300] - Chris
Yeah, we cover the gamut, don't we?
[00:02:20.160] - Brandon
Yeah, we did. This is not going to be industry-specific. We actually just talked more at a level of as being business owners and leaders and how journey mixes in and out with our life. We did that in the context of 2024, for most of you listening. It was a real year, man. It was a lot of things that went down. It was challenging and both motivating and frustrating and all the stuff.
[00:02:46.540] - Chris
Sorry in advance for those of you who will be disappointed, but there was actually no F-bombs in this episode.
[00:02:50.570] - Brandon
No, we didn't drop. I got real close, I think, if I recall correctly. It was right there, but we caught it.
[00:02:55.830] - Chris
What a beautiful picture of self-discipline and control, man. Way to go. It's all disciplined. Here we are, onward and upward, friends. Enjoy the episode. Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast? I can't tell you that react, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:03:14.070] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours.
[00:03:23.520] - Chris
I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose.
[00:03:26.520] - Brandon
No, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Hey, all, thanks so much for listening to the show. Hey, if you're not already following, please do so and ultimately share. The coolest currency that we have in terms of supporting this is share it with a friend, share it with somebody, a colleague, a peer, one of your downline team members. Let them be able to take advantage of the information you're already leveraging in your favor. And finally, guys, if you hear a show that really moves you, that really moves the needle, will you please leave us a review? Those five-star reviews help us a on.
[00:04:00.690] - Chris
And listen, if you're trying to grow your business, you might consider checking out Floodlight's business opportunity audit. It's free. We provided it no charge. It's actually what we use to assess new clients as they come in. It's a 110 point assessment for your business. And we've now decided to give access to the general public for it. Go and take our business opportunity audit at floodlightgrp. Com. It's going to help you identify the biggest gaps and opportunities in your business right now. And at the end, it'll assign you a health score to let you know exactly where your business stands right now. Go check it out, floodlightgrp. Com/audit, and take the Boa. It's a great way to get a pulse on your business.
[00:04:41.000] - Brandon
What's up, Michelle?
[00:04:42.270] - Michelle
What's up, guys? We're so happy to be here. Whether we're emotional or not, whether we have our crap together or not. It's all fine. Everything's fine.
[00:04:49.850] - Brandon
We were just all into the preamble, and then I'm like, let's just record this, guys.
[00:04:56.320] - Chris
What are we waiting for? Brandon was, for those of you that missed it, which was all of you except for us three. Brandon was just talking about how emotional and personal his orientation is. He always wants to make it by default and emotional.
[00:05:09.440] - Brandon
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So we were digging. Then there's Chris on the other side. Stoic, hard to get through.
[00:05:15.920] - Chris
Very pragmatic.
[00:05:16.780] - Brandon
Yeah. Yeah. Very grounded.
[00:05:19.420] - Chris
Yeah. Yeah. Non-emotional.
[00:05:20.550] - Brandon
Where do you fall in the... Where do you fall, Michelle?
[00:05:25.140] - Michelle
I feel like we've already gone off the rails here. So, Brandon, when you were talking about before we hit record, how lately that label has been coming around, one, I was surprised, but two, I also went through a phase right on the time that I bought a CNR where I got labeled as emotional a few times. And that honestly took me a little back, and it really made me evaluate how I come across in the industry, how I present myself. The times that I got emotional did involve giving an award to somebody I'm very close to, and I ended up getting a little emotional in presentation of that. Then in the purchase of CNR, some things that happened where I was standing up for myself in that. In this situation, from other parties felt like I was more emotional that, then I was just really trying to stand up for myself, and I felt like no one was hearing me, and that my voice and opinion didn't matter as the person that was buying it. It's interesting when you go through a phase like that where it was a label that I had gotten in that era, and I was not a fan.
[00:06:36.190] - Michelle
I really had to evaluate what I was doing that was making me come off that way and try to find a better way, I suppose.
[00:06:48.640] - Brandon
You just opened Pandora's box. I did.
[00:06:51.160] - Michelle
I think we have a direct-Right into it.
[00:06:53.240] - Chris
Well, you know what comes up for me when you say that is, I think, unfortunately, still, a lot of us have a knee-jerk reaction to emotion in the context of business as being weak. I know that's my fear. And I know like, Brandon, I make a joke out of being emotional. I mean, we're talking about it tongue in cheek to a degree. But I think that's what is behind the awkwardness of us talking about being emotional as business people is that I think there's still a perception that we often assign to emotional people, that they're somehow weak in a business sense. Sometimes I feel that way. I think when I've become emotional in a conversation with a client or in some media when we're on the podcast, or there's been a couple of times where I've gotten emotional on stage when I've been, like I think of a talk that we gave, The Heart of the Matter, that we gave at core for the main keynote a couple of years ago. It was very emotional. You were in the audience, Michelle.
[00:07:54.200] - Michelle
Yes, it was excellent. I remember all the graphics still that Janna had put together. It was excellent. Yeah.it was very emotional. It was very emotional. I don't think you could have done that without being emotional. Right.
[00:08:05.100] - Chris
But of course, the fear behind it, the fear in my heart, what was going on in my head was, how are people going to perceive this and perceive me in this light? We actually both were... We had this internal drive of this is important for us to share. There's a part of us too of like, gosh, because it really was, the whole talk was really oriented around our inner our thought life as leaders and the emotional component of that, and where does that come from, and how does it affect our leadership and so forth. And so we felt like it was an important topic to lead some conversation in. And yet it was totally absent of any business strategy per se. There wasn't some inspiring four-step thing of this is how you become a better leader. And so we just thought, how is this going to land with people? Are they going to see us as soft? Are they going to somehow see us as, I I don't know.
[00:09:00.580] - Brandon
It was weird. I think that when we use the term emotional, I think it's quick to lean into maybe the teary, I'm sad or I'm emotional because I'm experiencing something that's moving me in some way. Reality of it is, is for me personally, I'm emotional, period. And so what that means is highs are highs, lows are lows. And so all the things in between are just I can be very animated in those. Voice tempo, speed of my... It's down to my voice, pitch of my voice. All those things can go along with it. The other thing is, too, is I use the word feel all the time, and I don't think about it. I think this year it's been in stark contrast with some of our relationships because we got really intentional this year, for instance, bringing some people into our sphere that are very different from us. We needed to do that for a number of reasons. But professionally, it brought some people our sphere that I think in context to us or our borderline robotic. I mean, they're not, obviously. So I've had these gut checks several times this year where this person, and I respect and admire the hell out of them, that's the reason they're in our sphere, where they're say it like, this is an emotional response to this, or you're being emotional or whatever.
[00:10:23.950] - Brandon
At first, when they say that, part of me gets even more fired up because I I'm working on F-bombs, so I'm not going to color my sentence right now. That's good. I have an emotional response to the fact that they're freaking telling me I'm being emotional. Yep. Anyways, part of what we were going to do today, this is going to go all over the place, and you know what? I'm really excited about it.
[00:10:48.790] - Michelle
Me too.
[00:10:49.600] - Brandon
We're going to do a little year in review. We talked about it initially as being a bit of industry-specific. You know what, though? I think we're going to throw most of that out. If that turns you off and listening, just maybe hang in the pocket long enough because you may find it still fairly entertaining and valuable to you. But I don't want to do that. I don't want to talk a whole bunch about the industry, quite honestly. I'm here for it. Yeah, my years, I'm getting a little long in the tooth this year. I'm tired. Me, too. But I would like to talk with you guys a little bit. What in the hell did you experience this year that's maybe different than prior years and what is it doing? Michelle, if you're cool with it, we did get a little question before we started recording. One, just give me one right now that's top of mind where you feel like, Man, this happened. It's changing the way maybe that I'm responding to certain things or reacting to certain things. What was the lesson? I think we're going to just start popping off because I have something burning in my skull right now I want to talk about.
[00:11:51.260] - Michelle
Okay, I love it. It was the overall question, what's something that happened this year that changed my perspective on things, essentially?
[00:11:58.130] - Chris
Yeah, or just a real significant shift that's been taking place in you this year.
[00:12:03.400] - Michelle
That's a great question. I think the biggest shift has been me learning to trust in myself as a business owner, which has been partly overcoming those emotional comments and things that maybe hurt my confidence early on, which I found back really quick to the emotional conversation. What triggers me to be emotional is when I'm frustrated. I become emotional when I'm frustrated. I'm not a crier. I'm not I'm pretty even keel, happy, sad, whatever. But if I'm frustrated, that tends to be when I get more emotional, especially if I feel like I'm not being heard. So this year, people who are listening, if you've heard me on other podcasts this year, you know that it's been an interesting year for my business. I ended up having to let a very close friend go early in the year and her counterpart. That had been several months in the making. And I really had to learn to trust myself in that. And I really had learn, write stuff down. You own this. This is your company. It's okay to make hard decisions. It's okay to... There was so much to learn in that because it was the first time I had been through that, and it took some work with my executive coach and talking to an HR consultant to make sure I had the legal stuff right.
[00:13:17.450] - Michelle
And there were many components to it. It meant behind the scenes, trying to replace that person. So taking that leap, it actually was the best thing that I've done for my business, probably so far, and it ended up being the best thing for her. She thanked me later. I never, ever thought that she would understand why I asked her to leave. She came to me. We met for coffee about a month later, and she looked at me and said, Thank you so much for being brave enough to do for me what I couldn't do for myself.
[00:13:49.920] - Brandon
Oh, wow.
[00:13:50.980] - Michelle
She talked about how much better her life is now and how she saw how everything was playing out. Once it was over, she saw what I had been going through and how I had really tried. I had so tried to make it work. That really helped me learn to trust myself and to trust my gut and my instincts. If I'm really feeling like something is off to not be afraid to tackle it, not be afraid to lean into the hard stuff because we grow so much through. Having her on the team wasn't a mistake. It just was part of the journey. She was great on the team for a while, and then it just ended up we evolved so much. Like you guys, when you're in growth scale startup mode, it's just different. It just became just not a good fit. That was nothing against her and nothing against us. It just was what it was. From there, our team is stronger now. We're ending the year on a much higher note than we were in the middle of the year. I'm feeling much more confident as a leader to make hard decisions and to lean into that stuff.
[00:15:00.080] - Michelle
That's That's probably my biggest thing from the year. This has been an interesting year for everybody, I think. It has been. What about you guys?
[00:15:07.750] - Brandon
That was a big one. I think one of the things that you just said that I want to affirm because I've had a version of this years go. And unfortunately, I still need them because I still forget what the hell I'm confident in and why. But your remark about them coming back around and thanking you, that doesn't happen very often that the leader is going to have that. But I think that the truth still remains the same of as a leader, you identified that you were the wrong fit for the person, and that team didn't work for them anymore. A lot of times, it's like you're in an abusive relationship almost, where the person can't see that it's not a good fit until they get out of it. It may not come back and thank you, but the fact that you freed them really is what your responsibility is as a leader. Even if they never come back and say that was the best thing ever, I guarantee they're going to get over it and move on and have a better experience than they would have just hanging on your life. That's cool, man. Good for you.
[00:16:08.480] - Brandon
That's a big one.
[00:16:09.250] - Michelle
I had accepted that maybe she would never come back to me. I didn't think that she would. I didn't know what our friendship was going to be after, and I didn't expect her to come back. But yeah, I totally agree with you. I'm never a fan of the... Some people say things like, We're releasing you to your future, and things like that. I've never really been a fan of those phrases, but I was so careful and intentional about making sure it wasn't personal. Nothing I said was personal. It just wasn't the right fit anymore.
[00:16:40.060] - Brandon
Good for you. Good for you. That one's tough, man.
[00:16:44.430] - Chris
Oh, yeah, it is.
[00:16:45.960] - Michelle
What about you guys? I have. Brandon, you had a story brewing. All right.
[00:16:49.490] - Brandon
Okay, I'm not sure why. We've had, we, Chris and I, and as individuals, I've had lots of scenarios over the last probably 10 years that a tough time, you go through it, you pull out on the other side, and you're like, wow, it was elevating to some extent. I got a new set of tools, a new way of framing how I think about myself, about our companies, and all the things. This year, it seems like that's been on rapid fire since January first. Week in and week out, almost by sometimes day in and day out, there are these moments that we've had to face a challenge, we've had to have a conversation, We're bringing in a lot of very competent people into our sphere. We've been very diligent about that. We've been honored that we have the respect of people like that. And so our sphere changed so much this year, internally and externally, that it's intimidated the living shit out of me. I just realized I literally had to send an email to somebody last week that basically said, hey, my response to that, if I'm honest, is because I get intimidated by you, and sometimes I don't respond the way that I should.
[00:18:02.040] - Brandon
Literally, I had an email exchange last week, but I have felt like this all year long.
[00:18:07.490] - Chris
I got to stop you real fast because I heard you say that to a particular individual that I think you're referring to, live in a conversation. Yeah. I really respected the hell out of that because I think that is so hard. I would say even more so men, but I know it's not just a guy thing because I know that women feel the same intimidation. But I think there's more of an expectation maybe on men to not be to not let on, that you're feeling that way. And so I was one of the things I really admired. There's been a couple of times this year where I've heard you say that in the moment with that person. And I imagine for you that on the other side of that, it felt pretty free to just get that off your chest and not have to pose.
[00:18:46.720] - Brandon
It does. And I think that's the thing that it's both good and pisses me off at the same time is I feel like with situations like this, I have the memory of a goldfish, where it's like every single situation I go in with the same level of anxiety and heightened awareness and all the worries and all the things. Every time, inevitably, I get on the other side of doing what I wanted to do, but I just knew it was just intimidatingly uncomfortable. Every single time I'm rewarded for the effort or that move or that priority. And yet I go into every situation, like trying to retalk myself into having to do that. You're spot on. It was very freeing. It's this weird dichotomy of it's freeing And it also feels like sometimes when you say those things out loud, then it's like now they're real. And then you're like, so what? I was intimidated. Now what? What am I doing about it? How do I not remain intimidated? How do I shift out of this? It's just been a very demanding year. It's been interesting because this has probably been the year that Chris and I as a team have been faced with the most opportunity.
[00:19:57.050] - Brandon
In fact, it's ramping exponentially right now with just being invited to have some very serious conversations about opportunities and possibilities with really great people. The intimidation with the opportunities ramping, and at the same time, it's like, but you're being invited for a reason, so what are you going to do with that? How do I convince myself to be as confident as the person on the other side of the table is? I have good answers, but I think living those things out consistently, it's really hard. It's just freaking difficult, man.
[00:20:35.330] - Chris
I feel like one of the things, and it relates to this, is I've just felt this calling this year to become more honest in the way that I carry myself. The older I get, the more I find myself in those situations, and I notice inside me there's this intense pressure to perform and to present myself in a certain way as maybe being more confident than I actually am or more, in some cases, more knowledgeable or experienced than I actually might be when I feel intimidated and I come into those scenarios, as I work over time trying to leverage my intellect to present myself in a particular way when internally I'm feeling very conflicted or unsure of myself. I've just noticed that, and it keeps coming up for me. It's the internal question that I'm asking myself is, why do I feel such an intense pressure to act like a certain way versus just showing up the way I am and being honest? In the times where we've done this, I feel like whenever I am actually honest about what's happening internally, it almost always creates more of a connection with the other person, and it results in their respect.
[00:21:56.350] - Chris
More often than not, when I'm honest about maybe coming into a conversation or when I'm honest about being not equal in the conversation, hey, I don't understand what we're talking about. I mean, it just takes a variety of forms, being honest. But when I do, I feel like it tends to build the trust and connection I have with that other person. Yes. Significantly faster and more deeply than when I'm posing and trying to act like I am aligned with this person or I... You know what I mean? And so that's been both troubling in a way and also inspiring. I think all of us want to go into every conversation being really confident. And yet I think that's just not reality. And I think to your point, dude, this has been such a huge growth here for us. We've been showing up at tables and in conversations with folks that I think four years ago, you and I just never would have anticipated. When you show up to a big table, metaphorically speaking, there's a real pressure, I think, comes with it to feel like you need to justify your seat at the table, like why you deserve to be there.
[00:23:04.630] - Chris
Sometimes the reality is you don't feel like you deserve to be there. You're like, wow, how did this happen? I think sometimes instead of just feeling gratitude for being at the table and being like, wow, okay, now, how do I learn what's required in order for me to stay here? There's this pressure. You feel like you have to pretend like you belong there. Anyway, I don't know if anybody relates to this. Sounds like you guys do.
[00:23:28.550] - Michelle
I'm sure that people do. It's the whole fake it to you make it mentality or imposter syndrome. Yeah, all the time. Very constant. I'm curious in these, as you're getting more and more of these opportunities, how are you deciding what's for you and what's not? Where are you finding your no? I have a couple of things in my business where it's like, if it doesn't align with these things, then I know that this probably isn't the direction for us. But I've gone through similar situations, I think, to the two of you and also feel very probably like you do. When you're in these conversations, you really want to serve these people well. You are thankful to be there, and you want to make sure that you are serving this relationship exceptionally well. Then I've also just learned sometimes that I can't. I don't actually have necessarily the resources that you're looking for. But anyway, I'm curious how you're weeding through all of these opportunities because you can't say yes to everything, no matter how much we want to, and we shouldn't say yes to everything sometimes. Do Do you have a way that you're weeding through them?
[00:24:31.590] - Brandon
I think we're trying to figure that out. You know what I mean? For me, personally, this year, I think the challenge has been probably most rooted in how quickly do I want to give myself, and even in my partnership with Chris, us, the freedom to lean into what we want versus what we feel like we have to do. I think as business owners, this is a common element to the journey. I think it's what prevents us from getting out of the self-employed status. I think this stuff makes it hard to get past that. If you're a restore, you get to three, five, six million, and then there's this new push that demands a lot different tool set. And so this year, it's like, I feel like we're being approached by the things that give me the most excitement. And I think what I'm trying to understand is, is it okay for me, to move into these positions faster than what the startup mentality would require from us, if this is making sense. Let me try to make it less cryptic. Floedlight is a young company. We have a lot of infrastructure and things. This year was an infrastructure year.
[00:25:48.640] - Brandon
Holy cow. Big lift this year, which we're totally excited and exhausted about. But we did that because when Chris and I started Floedlight, we never wanted to be self-employed, that we don't have any interest in being a slave to our own business. We've always wanted to build a business as a business. This was our first year, I think, where we felt the most friction in that process and got over it. And fortunately, Wayne, for any of us that has listened to the show more than once, you've probably heard his name. We are equally thankful for everyone on our team and the role that they have. Wayne has played a special lift in the company in terms of because of his specific civic skillset. It changed a lot for us, and it helped us do this year what we need to do, and it'll continue to elevate the team. Okay, all that to be said, if you look, I'm trying to find the balance here of total transparency and then what is distracting. If you look at fundamentally how we manage our business, we definitely did some pre-spending, and that's part of the plan. That's how it goes.
[00:26:54.000] - Brandon
I think sometimes I get around business leaders and I hear them talk, and it's like, They can have no wanes and do all the things and still somehow have the fuel in their tank to do these other things that they're excited about, motivated to do, and they have this interesting relationship to the business where they're in the weeds and out of the weeds simultaneously. I've just found this year, that ain't me, babe. I ain't going to do that. I can't. What I've found myself doing is pre-investing, moving out certain functions faster than probably somebody might say to. Then I get this dumb mental gymnastics I begin doing in my mind is, well, then am I even bringing the value to the company that I should be if I'm not doing X, IZ responsibility. And that's what I've been wrestling this year. It's like, I hire a guy like Wayne who just freaking straight up kicks ass in his responsibility, and at times really does most of them better than I can do them anyways. Then somehow I'll sit in on a Saturday morning and over process the fact that I got a guy like that on my team, and then I'm asking myself, where should my attention go?
[00:28:08.150] - Brandon
Well, F me. That's what I hired him in the first place for. So why I'm doing those mental gymnastics, I really don't understand it. I don't know if this is making any sense at all.
[00:28:16.650] - Chris
No, it makes perfect sense. So I think underneath all of that, one of the ways that we're evaluating opportunities, we had a really key opportunity earlier this year that we took a lot of forward steps on to vet that opportunity. We were looking at essentially acquiring another business unit for Floedlight. Both of us stepped back. We had a conversation. I remember we're in our studio here. There's another little office adjacent to Brandon and I's offices in our building space here. I remember standing there and we both just looked each other and we're like, does this feel right, what we're about to do? Because it's going to have this element, and it's going to have this element, and we're going to have to really lean hard into these two things. Is that really what you want to do? Both of us just said, No. And we walked away from that. Unfortunately, we didn't have to put a bunch of capital into the exploration of it. We got out before we got too far in, which you can't always do. Sometimes you got to spend money to figure that out. But then right now, we're evaluating a couple of opportunities, and I think inevitably we're going to make the same judgment, right?
[00:29:18.800] - Chris
Is what this is going to require of us, something we feel motivated and inspired to do? What are the heaviest investments we're going to have to make into these things to make it work and to make it pay? And do we want to do a ton of that? Because for Brandon and I, are we money motivated? 100 %, of course. Of course, we are. I think you can't be in business and at least not have that as part of your motivation. Yeah. Right?
[00:29:46.460] - Brandon
Not doing it for free.
[00:29:47.670] - Chris
But at the same time, we also agreed philosophically, and I think emotionally, that neither one of us wants to sacrifice our now life.
[00:29:56.730] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:29:57.650] - Michelle
Yeah.
[00:29:58.070] - Chris
For the promise of building an empire there someday. We're not willing to sacrifice the now for the tomorrow empire. Because, of course, all of us, I think on this call, have experienced some state of unexpected loss, enough to realize there ain't no guarantee that we're going to get to the 10-year mark when our pro forma looks like this and our driveway looks full of that. It's like, we don't know. It's really important for Brandon and I to try to find that balance to do that dance of, okay, just how much of our current life and our life force are we willing to give to that thing. And so part of the judgment is, what am I good at and what do I enjoy? I think it's the filter that we've been learning to apply where it's like, okay, I could do that. I could figure out how... Here's one example for me. And some people are going to be like, wow, Nordike, it's really foolish of you, bro. Here's what I've learned about myself in my 40s. Here's what I've started learning about myself. I have a couple of really close buddies that are really into estate, and they're really good at it.
[00:31:02.110] - Chris
They mortgage their house to buy a duplex 15 years ago, and then they 1031 to that duplex into an eight-plex, and then bought another thing, and then they got some hard money, and they figured out that game, and now they've got 25 units or 100 units. So one of my buddies has done 150 flips in the last 10 years, and he's been extraordinarily successful. And there's a part of me that It's like, I need to freaking get on that bandwagon. I need to go leverage some money, go find one of my buddy's hard money lenders, go do this. And then my wife and I will do this in the evenings and weekends. And then I'll have my kids manage the rental portfolio and all this stuff. And you know what I figured out, and I've finally been able to be honest myself is, I have no freaking desire to do that. Not only do I not want to spend my life in little spreadsheets and PnLs for all my little properties and see where my debt service is at and when I should refide. I just don't want to do that. I don't want to make money that way.
[00:32:06.420] - Chris
Now, the exception of that would be, as Brandon and I, as some of our business ventures and stuff are playing out, will I eventually maybe own some real estate and have a management company do that stuff? Probably. It's like one of those smart things you put money into. But I just realized I'm not that guy. And I have, I guess, depending on how you look at it, I've probably left a lot of money on the table. I'm probably behind in some of my investment goals than some of my buddies are that have taken that path. But I've just realized for me, I prefer to build and run service companies. And I also have certain things that I'm really extraordinarily good at in running a business or participating in a business. The other thing that Brandon and I, I think collectively, we've learned is neither one of us wants to be a solo entrepreneur. And I've tried that previously in my time. I've had three or four LLLCs in my life, a couple of which have been more successful than others, where I've been the guy, the single owner, and I'm just not at my best.
[00:33:05.140] - Chris
And there's a lot of risks with the business partnership. We've seen some ones that haven't played out very well. All of us have seen business partnerships that fail and crash and burn. And I think Brandon and I feel really lucky. We have enough of a... He and I are different enough and alike enough that it's really worked well. We have friction. We have hard stuff we got to deal with every now and then. But I think both of us just recognize that we're better together and both of us function better in a team ownership type of thing. Both of us because you've had your own companies before, too. And it's like, so all of these things, I think, boil down to, I'm starting to learn to be more honest with myself. And I'm finding freedom, and I'm also finding energy in that. When I stop posing and pretending, when I can just lay down, you know what? I'm not going to get into the whole real estate flip thing, and I'm not going to I listen to deeper pockets on iTunes every freaking week. I'm not going to freaking learn and read all the books about real estate investing because I just don't want to do it.
[00:34:09.910] - Chris
It's never captivated me. I have these other things that captivate me that it turns out I'm pretty good at. And what happens if I dump all my fuel into that fire? I think the money will eventually follow the way I wanted to, right? Yeah.
[00:34:24.410] - Michelle
I agree. I'm with you on the real estate because I've had people also like, Michelle, you start investing in doing real estate stuff. And I am like, that sounds like the worst. I would hate that. I don't even... I am not ever... I also believe in, even in the world of investing, slow and steady wins the race. I believe that in some ways you can end up in the same place down the road if you are faithful in your investing in yourself and smart about it. So it's just being way more patient. You're not going to realize a whole bunch of cash all at once. But I'm risk averse when it comes to money. Money. So I've also been like that in my business. But I want to go back to what you were talking about, too, about feeling okay to remove yourself from certain roles as being a business owner. I think that that's so interesting because society tends to get in our heads so much and we let society dictate what we can or should or should not do so much. And business owners are prone to feeling guilty when it's like, well, I feel like I should be doing that.
[00:35:28.580] - Michelle
I felt that way about hiring Lauren as our editor and feeling like, well, I should be doing all that editorial. I should be doing all of this. But she's way better at it. With Wayne, I know Wayne, and he is very talented. These people come in and are meant to be in these roles. I think the faster we can fire ourselves from certain roles in our businesses, the better we're going to be able to focus on the areas that we Excel and can help it grow. None of us should be caught in the weeds of certain things anyway. So the more we can let society not dictate how our businesses should grow, I think both of us, probably you more so than me, have felt probably more fuel in the first few years than maybe normal businesses feel. We have had that rocket fuel that's helped us launch and get going. And that does require, I think, faster evolution into being a more mature business than maybe you would expect to be.
[00:36:31.320] - Brandon
I agree with that.
[00:36:33.220] - Michelle
You just have to ride the rocket and figure it out as you go and fall off. I don't know.
[00:36:39.430] - Brandon
Yeah, I think you're spot on. One of the things I feel like that's been really front and center related to what you're talking about is for most of my life, I've wrest with this identity of Jack of all trades. And the reason I just started to come to terms with it is that almost everything that I've done, I have this really rapid ascension through several ranks. And I get past the hack and I get past the doing it because you have to stage of development. And I begin to actually understand the core competencies and how to leverage, let's say, certain tool sets or certain perspectives in my favor to do that role. And I've been that way my whole life. And yet, most of the time, if I stay too too narrow in terms of what that role is requiring from me, I eventually hit a wall where my motivation level or the attractive driver for me to this nuance of that type of role and that core function and responsibility begins to wane. Now, all of a sudden, I'm looking at and I start getting bored. I don't want to give the level of attention it takes to go to the next 10,000 hours of competency.
[00:37:57.590] - Brandon
I've wrestled with that my whole career. I skyrocket into recognition. I skyrocket into certain levels of responsibility, and then it begins to taper off. And 99% of the time, it's because I'm a starter by nature. Yeah. And so then I just get into this cycle where it really requires the consistency, and I began to falter. For most of my life, that thing that I've recognized about myself has always been seen quietly behind the scenes from me as a week weakness. And one of the things that I've found, and again, I don't know that I would stand up and beat my chest about it yet, but I'm starting to get really comfortable with the fact that it's my natural bend towards being a Jack of all trades that actually helps me build teams because I will learn enough about each role to be dangerous. And so then I begin to get a pretty clear understanding of what it takes for somebody to the 20,000 hour person in that role or function. I think now, and again, this is at such a baby stage that I can't say it with a lot of confidence yet, but it's this combination of, I I get really excited about the launch.
[00:39:17.990] - Brandon
I'm comfortable with the fact that my Jack of all trades syndrome, it allows me to have a deeper understanding of a wide breadth of skills and talents. Then finally, if I can roll that in to trusting myself to only do the things I'm excited about, I feel like that is the superpower. But I struggle to walk in the door with that in the toolkit, just being honest about it.
[00:39:47.980] - Chris
Yeah, dude, I've got an external view for you on that because I hear what you're saying, and I've seen you leaning into that this year. And what I've seen you do is you're leveraging that ability to quickly learn and skill up in a particular way, just enough that you can delegate well and then move on to the new thing. And that is a superpower to be able to learn. I mean, I think it's the speed at which you're able to learn and apply yourself, the drive that you have to get excited, to put a ton of energy behind a certain thing, to get it to this point where, as an example, you can hand it off to Wayne with enough clarity and vision that then Wayne can run full bore with that thing I feel like I've seen you do that really throughout our relationship in different types of roles. But I agree, that is one of your superpowers, is that ability to skill up quickly and then recognize when you're skilled up to the point where you can hand it off effectively to somebody. Yeah. And then When you get to go chase the new start, which, of course, we've had lots of new starts.
[00:40:51.140] - Chris
It's just this unfolding of growth and opportunity with this company. But it's only really accelerated as we've been able to grow the team, right? And allow the team to start to take some of that vision to run with it. Liftify. Com/bloodlight. You've heard Brandon and I talk a bunch of times about the importance of Google reviews, maybe even heard our episode with Zack Garrett, the CEO and founder. Recency, consistency, two of the most important things when it comes to maximizing the benefit from your Google reviews. Why not use an outside partner? Liftify is targeting 20 to 25% conversion, right? So if you do a thousand jobs a year, you ought to be adding right now 200 to 250 reviews a year, every single year. If you're not doing that, you owe it to yourself to get a free demo from liftify. Com. See their system, see how it works, see how affordable it is. I promise you, you'll thank us. Liftify.
[00:41:50.150] - Brandon
Com/bloodlight. We spend a lot of money and a lot of attention trying to get that first call. And one of the things that we do once it happens is sometimes we leave it to chance, Who picks up the phone? How do they respond? How do they walk that client into a relationship with us? Well, one of the benefits of partnering with a team like answerforce. Com is we can systemize that, we can make it more consistent. We can also have backup for when our teams need that help. Somebody goes on vacation, somebody's out sick. We get a storm search, we get cat event. All sorts of things can have an impact on how we receive that client. But the most important thing is they need to know that they've chosen the right team. And so answerforce answerforce. Com, can support you, be a bolt on partner to help you consistently produce an awesome onboarding experience with that first call with your client. So answerforce. Com/bloodlight.
[00:42:42.490] - Chris
That's great. Cnr magazine, We're friends with all the folks at CNR. Michelle and her team, they do a great job of keeping their ear to the ground and reporting all the important information from our industry. You want to stay up on all the M&A activity and what the latest best practices are for selling your company successfully. She's got Great articles about all the four quadrants of our business. Cnr is constantly pushing out great material and leveraging great writers and subject matter experts in our industry. It is the water-cooler of our industry. So if you're not subscribed, go to cnrmagazine. Com. Follow them on LinkedIn. Follow Michelle on LinkedIn. Trust us, if you're trying to stay on top of everything happening in the industry, your best destination is cnrmagazine. Com.
[00:43:27.220] - Brandon
You guys, many of you have already heard about Action the Actionable Insights and the training and the technical expertise that they bring to the industry. But how many of you are already leveraging the Actionable Insights profile for Xactimate? That's the game changer. It's essentially an AI tool that's walking alongside of you as you write your estimate, bringing things to your attention that should be added, that could be considered. All of them, items that increase our profitability, increase the effectiveness and the consistency of that scope, and it can do anything from helping a new team member assimilate some estimating best practices, and it also helps the grizzled vets add back that few % that we've just forgot over time. So actionableinsights, getinsights. Org/f floodlight and take a look at what the Actionable Insights Xactimate profile could be doing for you and your team.
[00:44:23.390] - Chris
Okay, so I have a question along these lines of like, year in review. Any behaviors, specific behaviors of yours that you've decided to change this past year or are in the middle of changing? I'm going to talk about one. I'll throw one out here that's been more recent for Brandon and I. We joked about it. We joked about it. I can't remember if we were recording yet or not when we said this, but Brandon, this seems funny, so I'll open it up with a light-hearted thing. But Brandon and I have been working on using better language. Oh, yeah. That's the most recent. We had a conference we spoke at Maybe two months ago, maybe. Two and a half months ago. I don't know. Late summer, September, October. Anyways. Oh, yeah. One of our friends was there who's a fairly prominent industry leader. I had a sidebar conversation with her. So Brandon and I were essentially running this full two-day workshop at this conference. We had lots of front stage time. We were using a fairly regular cadence of salty language, which I think up to this, it's really interesting my history with cussing because I grew up in a very Southern Baptist...
[00:45:36.870] - Chris
Yeah. Okay, thank you, Michelle.
[00:45:40.260] - Brandon
Not full cussing.
[00:45:41.970] - Chris
Oh, man.
[00:45:42.550] - Brandon
But we've got these...
[00:45:43.850] - Michelle
I love them.
[00:45:44.590] - Chris
We all come from somewhere. I grew up in a real churchy environment where cussing was very much categorized as a sin, if you will, and unwholesome talk. For the most part, I didn't really cuss until I got into the restoration industry. I think part of it was a desire to connect with my peoples and just fit in with the culture. Part of it was I just started to enjoy the saltiness, and that just carried on. And now it's been, I don't know, going on 10, 12 years or whatever. So fast forward to this conference, and I'm having this sidebar conversation with this industry leader, and I said, Hey, just honest feedback. How have you felt about the workshops so far? What do you think about the content? She's like, Oh, man, it's really great. She said, The only thing that really detracts is just how much cursing you guys are doing. I was like, Okay. I knew she was mostly talking about Brandon, and so I wasn't as offended. Wow.
[00:46:43.930] - Michelle
Right. Right under the bus there. Perfect.
[00:46:47.090] - Brandon
That was awesome. He may not be wrong.
[00:46:48.980] - Chris
I couldn't resist that. Brandon is dead. I mean, he has army background, too, on top of all this. It's hard. They have nine words that they use repeatedly. No, I'm just kidding.
[00:46:58.550] - Brandon
Yeah, and eight of them are the It's not going to work.
[00:47:01.920] - Chris
Anyway, I took that feedback to Brandon, and we joked about it, and then we modulated our language for the remainder of that, and it was great. She felt better about the delivery. But that stuck with me. Then we had another conference we were at, and some salt came out in our conversation, and we actually got a text message from our friend in this particular group. He's like, Hey, listen, you guys are not boring, and that's the worst sin. You're good. Everything's good, but can we dial back the language. And so finally, Brandon and I coming out of that. We just had a decision to make, and here's where we landed, because I think it's... I've given a lot of thought to this. And one of the things is we have a whole new class of consultants that are new floodlight consultants are coming in January to headquarters. And I've been assigned to give a brand values talk to this group as our company president. And I was thinking about this a lot. Here's why I've landed on the whole cursing thing. I think For me, I think it's entirely possible for a person of character to use salty language.
[00:48:06.230] - Chris
I think when I grew up, it was just arbitrarily seen as bad. People that use cusswords, it's bad. And I think now I'm in a different place where it's like, no, I know plenty of people of character that use salty language. But here's the thing I have noticed, and where I think the character comes in. I think that it's our responsibility as leaders to know what room we're and who our audience is.
[00:48:32.460] - Michelle
Yeah.
[00:48:33.100] - Chris
And I think the sign of character is knowing where you're at and who you're talking to and the way that they need to be spoken to. I think that's the error I think that Brandon and I have made at times with Perhaps the podcast. Now, we're not saying that the podcast is all of a sudden not going to have an explicit rating like it does. But I think context is everything as a leader and just as a person. That character is really a function of understanding who or with and what the room needs from us. And so I think there's character and I think there's style. And I think it's possible to have a style that maybe uses curse words selectively. That's part of your style, and you modulate that style based on the situation and the people you're around. And so I think for us at Floodlight, this is a value that's emerging. It's taking us a while to figure it out. But I think as a company, what we're starting lean towards is, is that when we're on stage or we're in some public forum in media, we're not going to curse. And then when we're with people, one to one or in small groups or in a private setting, I think probably from a character standpoint, the best move is to follow people's style.
[00:49:48.910] - Chris
Whereas if I'm with somebody and they use the F word or they use the S word or they say some other phrase that might be uncomfortable for other people, right? If they lead with that, well, then I can follow that and I can try to match their style. I think that's how we relate to one another a lot of times, right? Not to say somebody has to cuss in order to make friends. But to me, that seems from a character standpoint, the best policy is company. Is, okay, we're going to follow other people's style in a personal context. But when it's public, we're going to restrain our language, right? So as not to offend, because I think the thing we want to avoid is we want to avoid missing out on relationships that we otherwise might had because we led with the wrong style. Yeah, I think that's good. We offended before we ever had a chance to cultivate a relationship. I don't ever want to do that. I don't ever want to sacrifice a potentially awesome relationship because I feel a need to drop F-bombs, right? That's been a thing, and it's forced me just to think about character, but like beyond just cussing.
[00:50:51.310] - Chris
It's like, okay, what about other mannerisms and things I might choose to talk to one-on-one or talk about one-on-one with somebody? I don't want to prevent me from a relationship or an opportunity or the ability to help somebody because I've offended them before I ever had a chance to create relationship.
[00:51:12.790] - Brandon
How about you, Michelle? Anything you're iterating this year that's just you found profoundly important?
[00:51:20.090] - Michelle
Mine's been learning to say no. I get a lot of the comments of, Wow, you're everywhere. Wow, you must travel a lot. Wow, you do all these things, blah, blah, blah. You guys are the the way you travel a lot and attend a lot of events. The first few years of startup mode, you have to, right? You need to be everywhere. You need to have your face as many places as possible. Then I think you get to a point where it's like, okay. For one, I just burn myself out. It was just too much, and I was trying to be everything to everyone. I have found, especially in the realm of speaking, I really enjoy leading panels. I love leading panel discussions. I do not love being the person that's on the stage as the expert. I actually don't consider myself an industry expert. I consider myself the intermediary to help other people be the experts. I want to elevate the experts that are in the industry and help give them the stage so that their voices, like you two are a great example, your voices can be heard. I do not consider myself an expert.
[00:52:18.440] - Michelle
I'm a connector of people. That's my role. That's CNR's role. Cnr is just a vehicle to help share knowledge. I'm grateful that I get a lot of invites to a lot of events and a lot of invites to speak. I just got one a few weeks ago. Actually, that was to an event that I had been wanting to attend and was looking forward to being part of for a long time. It happened to come at the event a couple of days after I come back from an international trip with my MBA, and I had to say no. I was disappointed about that. It's learning to trust that even when I need to say no to things that I do think are for me and that excite me, those opportunities will come back around if they really are meant for me. A lot of opportunities aren't this one time. It's like you do it now or never. Some are, and then you just need to do them then. But industry events and speaking and things like that, those opportunities will probably come again. It I'm just learning to, I think especially because I have little kids, and I appreciated what you were saying earlier about not wanting to give up your life now to have that empire later.
[00:53:28.340] - Michelle
Let's find the balance in this as we go and not just sacrifice ourselves to our businesses and miss our families. My big goal right now is to be as present for my kids and my family as I possibly can be. I'm just learning to better manage my time so that I don't feel like I've... I went through a period where I felt like I gave almost everything that I had to the industry and had nothing left. I love the industry, and so I love doing that. It was just... This year was just difficult, I think, and there was a lot that happened. It was a slow year for restores, a slow year for a lot of the vendors. It just was a difficult year going through my MBA at the same time. It was a lot. But learning to say no and having the feeling like I'm giving myself permission to say no when I've really evaluated an opportunity and whether or not it's right for us is great. I'm looking forward to further building up my team and them being able to go without me to events. We're very close to that happening. I'm really hoping that Lauren, our editor, will start doing some podcasting or something like that herself, because I need to not be the only voice that's coming out of CNR.
[00:54:42.260] - Michelle
Just like you guys have, some of your consultants also have their voices out and about, whether it's Scott or Mike or whatever. Wayne has some voice as well. That is so key and so important. It's one, saying no so that I'm not spread so thin that I have nothing left. And And two, finding those opportunities and trying to bring my team more into the fold so that they're going to also become more recognized in the industry. I think Tasha, who does sales and as our production manager, I think she is getting pretty close to that. There are a lot of people that recognize her and ask about her if she doesn't come to a show with me. Learning to say no is critical. I remind myself, which also goes back to some comments you made earlier, I remind myself often that my kids are only little for a little while And a decade from now, I'm going to have all the time that I want to pour into my business and to keep growing it or diversifying or acquiring or whatever. And so it has been trying to figure out what is my goal with the business now?
[00:55:46.240] - Michelle
And also realizing that those things change, right? Because your reason for owning a business today might change tomorrow. I don't plan to sell the business anytime soon, so that's not why I own it. I'm not going in it to sell it or make money that way, but I am in to provide a steady life for my family and to be able to pick my kids up every single day at 3:00, unless I'm traveling, and to take them to school every morning and not have to miss anything. I don't miss sporting events. That was actually something talking about this saying no, something that I learned in the orientation with my MBA. We started talking about, which I think you guys, I think we talked about this together on another podcast we did maybe last year, but having hard boundaries One of the boundaries I had set with my MBA team was, I don't miss Levi's Hockey games. Those are important to me. That's good family time. I don't miss that. Just having those non-negotiables is what we call them, setting non-negotiables for yourself and then allowing yourself to hold on to those, I think can be so valuable.
[00:56:53.060] - Michelle
That's my one non-negotiable that I have. But then I never felt guilty because I didn't I have to miss a game. And also my team, the expectations were set, and I didn't miss that much at all because of the hockey games, but no one felt bad. It just was what it was, and everybody understood. It's the same being a leader with your team, right? I'm sure that you have non-negotiables with your team. Were you to have set boundaries, whether it's this night's date night or whatever, you can't. I'm not going to be around. I'm going to work out at this time in the morning and don't plan to be able to get a hold of me unless something's on fire in that hour or whatever it is. But having those non-negotiables I think is so vital as especially a business owner. Otherwise, you're just open to getting burned out.
[00:57:37.130] - Brandon
It's funny. I don't know if you've noticed this too, Michelle, is do you see that the more diligent you are at mapping out the non-negotiables that you actually end up getting everything done that you needed to in the time frame that you've allotted yourself?
[00:57:51.520] - Michelle
Yes. I'm way more efficient and way better at getting stuff done now that I haveā€¦ I've actually considerably shortened my work hours this year and the time that I'm in the office. That's not to say that I am the type that will shoot back an email at a random time if I have time, if it's not taking away from something, but I still get everything done and then some, and it's fine.
[00:58:14.230] - Brandon
It's that whole freedom and discipline thing. Sometimes I look at my own schedule, my own calendar, and it makes me want to throw up because every... I mean, there's color on just about every free spot on that calendar. And though, the advantage The advantage of it is, is like, I actually don't work a ton after 5:00 PM. I do. I still think, I still process, I still consider the business. If we got to talk to a team member or late night, yeah, I'll catch myself.
[00:58:44.960] - Chris
I do still get some emails. I do. 4:30 AM in the morning.
[00:58:48.820] - Brandon
I do. I am a morning guy. That's when it's really no holds part. But I have found this year that I've gotten an unbelievable amount of work done during During the day, during the work day, because I started this year and said, I'm not going to blow up my family this year. I'm not going to not be home. I'm not going to screw around with the... Good for you. Good I'm not going to talk about that. That was a slow catch. I'm not going to screw around with my relationship with my wife or my kids because it's like that talk several years ago. I won't be surrounded by nameplates I have the business. I won't have a bunch of employees in my room in the hospital. I'm not going to have the truck I like. It's hopefully there's some humans in there that I'm related to. I didn't crap all over that because I just kept punting them and their needs because I was building our business. You know what I mean? Man, I got to tell you, as hard as things have been in the business this year, and life always has stuff at home with your kids and your family, I haven't felt bad about the way I conducted myself this year.
[01:00:02.960] - Brandon
That helps a lot. Even just dealing with life's challenges, when I don't have that thing over my left shoulder that tells me I'm failing miserably at home in my home relationships, it's like, I tend to have a lot more wherewithal to deal with the bullshit that comes with the business in life because I'm like, Hey, I've got some concrete foundation set, and that's my family. You just iterate and go with the punches sometimes when it comes to the business. But I feel like I've had a lot more stability because I prioritized that this year. Chris and I were very intentional about that when we started flood by. He has to remind me, Hey, we're not blowing this up, right? Mid route. We said we were going to be convicted about this in It's been surprisingly, I don't want to say easy, but it's been surprisingly simple to do, believe it or not, as we booted up floodlight.
[01:00:54.310] - Chris
I think part of it is what you realize. It's just how much ego is involved with burning the candle at both ends. There's a lot of ego in, certainly not our industry, but just in the whole startup environment around sleeping at the office and blowing up your marriage for the sake of your startup. And of course, I don't think anybody actually looks at that admiringly. It's just a lot of it's just jealousy. It's just the greed. It's the money that causes It causes us to accept that culture. Yeah. Because it's like, and I think, unfortunately, Dave Ramsey gets co-opted, I think, in this entrepreneurial culture where it's like, Do what other people are unwilling to do so you can live like how others are unable to later on. That's this thing. Deny yourself now and nose to the grindstone, work harder than anybody else now so you can live better than them, blah, blah, blah. And I think most people realize that, well, one, sometimes it just doesn't work out. Just because you're working your ass off doesn't mean you're going to be a multimillionaire. It can still blow up. And then it blows up and you don't have your family either.
[01:02:12.710] - Chris
And it's like, okay, Well, if I can get past my ego and my own sense of greed, I think it's possible to do a lot of productivity during the day in just an eight to five grind, so to speak, if I'm serious about it, if I'm committed to Like you talked about, I mean, holy cow, MBA, hockey, small children, marriage, and publishing business. And you found, in many ways, you're more productive when you create space for all those other things, partly because you have to Yeah.
[01:02:45.630] - Michelle
Yeah.
[01:02:46.130] - Chris
And I've found some of that as well. I do have one curious thing, though, for you, Michelle, because I know so much of your work is creative work, whether it's selling ads, sales conversations, or creative work, as well as magazine layouts and giving your opinion on stuff. One thing I've struggled with this year because we've had this theme of overcoming and insights and realization and positive change. Well, one thing that I'm thinking about for this coming year is a lot of the work I do is very creative in nature. I tend to have less task-oriented things as a part of the lion's share of my work and more creative production that I end up doing, whether it be designing talks or creating content and things of that sort. And I found very hard to organize myself by time blocks and planned work sessions. Because it's possible, and I've heard writers talk about this, and I think part of it's discipline that I need to cultivate, because I sit down I say, record a training module for one of our master courses or something. The team is counting on me to get it done by a certain date, right?
[01:03:53.980] - Chris
So we can have production schedules and project management within our company. It's very important. And oftentimes, I arrive to that time block, and I'm just either not in the right head space. I had a difficult interaction with my wife or my kids, and I'm still like, my head just isn't right for the creative work. And I stew, and I spin my wheels, and I might spend three hours and get nothing out of it. I've had a number of nights here at the office where I'll get... I've had a few Fridays this year where I'll get to six o'clock, and I'm texting my wife. I'm like, I've got one more video. It's a four-minute video I need to do, I'll be home as soon. Then at seven o'clock, I'm texting her, Honey, I'm still working on it. Then eight o'clock rolls around. I just can't. Sometimes I nail it in the 11th hour, and then other times I'm like, Oh, crap. I just got to cut the cord and come in tomorrow. Have you learned a way... Have you been able to overcome this? Do you have any tips for that of how to deal with creative work?
[01:04:55.040] - Chris
I think for business owners listening to this, there's a lot of creative aspects to running a restoration company. For sure.
[01:04:59.730] - Brandon
It's your vision time. This is your.
[01:05:01.950] - Chris
Yeah, it's vision time, it's strategic planning time. It's thinking about your marketing, your sales, like how are we going to grow, all this stuff. How do you manage that, Michelle, in such a creative business?
[01:05:14.770] - Michelle
Great question. I am 1,000% a procrastinator by trade. By trade, literally, I could own a business in procrastination, which doesn't serve well for MBA or publishing. What I have found is that I am well intended mentioned, and I will try to start... I use motion to block out my time a little bit, which does work really well for me, and it keeps me within the work hours that I want to be and will redistribute something if I ended up not getting it done that day. You can put hard deadlines in there. If it redistributes it for you a couple of times, but there's a hard deadline, eventually it's going to be like, Hey, you have to get this done. I have found that once I'm up against a hard deadline, I can get stuff done, and that is usually where I'm the most creative. I seem to need that definitive hard deadline for the creative stuff to actually be there. But something that I also learned really early in my career, I guess, in journalism itself, I read Sheryl Sandberg's book from Facebook, and she had said, Done is better than perfect sometimes. I I know all of us want things to be perfect, but I also remind myself that the outside doesn't necessarily know the bar you've set for yourself in this project.
[01:06:28.280] - Michelle
They don't know how in your brain you intentioned this to be. So from the outside, this could be high quality and look perfect. To you, it might not be, but it might be done, and you probably did it well. So I've learned to accept sometimes done is better than perfect. It depends on what it is, but some things just don't need to be. We can't make everything perfect. It's not possible. And so I've had to learn that with myself. Back when I first got into the industry, I Another publication, right? I struggled when I would put out a magazine that I didn't feel like it was as good as the one before. Well, it's impossible to have a better magazine than the one before every single time. That is completely impossible. There's going to be some rock stars every year, and there are going to be some others that are going to be good and they're going to have some good content. But it's just not every issue is the state of the industry issue. Not every issue is the RIA show issue that has awards in it or whatever it may be. It just is learning that sometimes done is better than perfect, if you can get your message across, not everything has to be a slam dunk.
[01:07:37.120] - Michelle
And so that is what I have had to teach myself. And I've also tried to lead my team in that as well, because the world moves so fast now, and we have to put out so much content so quickly that we obviously have really high standards and also ethical lines and making sure that things are read by the appropriate people, especially if it's technical and it needs or whatever that may be. We have really high standards, but we also just at some point, Okay, we're there. It's okay. It's okay now. Maybe it goes along with that no. Learning how to say no and learning to let things be okay and not be perfect in my eyes, because from the outside, it probably looks great to everybody else. It probably does. We all have very high standards. So not letting myself get stuck in the weeds. That was also something I learned early with my MBA group is I am... Because I'm a creative thinker, so in my MBA little cohort group, there's five of us, including myself. I'm the creative one. And then I have an accountant, an engineer, a supply chain and purchaser in the auto industry, and a lean manufacturing instructor.
[01:08:54.960] - Michelle
There's me. Wow. He has to use the odd one out in the group in every single freaking conversation? Holy crap. Yes. My way of thinking, I didn't realize how different my way of thinking was in business and in many situations until getting into my MBA and starting to work with this group. The way that I approach projects and all of everything was very different. My thought processes are very different. But that was a good lesson for me to also... Because I would get into the weeds or I would get a little... A buy idea is a good one. I know I know that you guys don't think that way, but I also don't work at Ford. I don't work at the Tigres. One guy was an accountant for the Tigres at first, and now he works for the big energy company in Michigan. Johnson Controls, an international company. They all work for these massive companies. I am over here as this little business owner by myself. I don't know. It's learning to just take it in stride, and I've learned a lot from them, and they had to learn to trust me because my thinking was different.
[01:10:00.600] - Michelle
I had to learn to trust them because their thinking was different. And maybe like you guys, because my experience has been pretty narrow as far as business goes because it's been publishing in journalism, it's not often that I... Or it's restoration. I'm not in conversations with people outside of restoration very often, so I'm very thankful for the fuel that that has given me. I bet. That really went off track from the original question.
[01:10:27.800] - Brandon
That's awesome. Yeah, That makes a ton of sense. Okay, all right. Question for you guys, because I'm just thinking, okay, going into next year, right? I just like taking at least a couple of minutes to think about what's the priority going to be? What's the main shift maybe that we're focused on? For you, Chris, and then I want you to answer Michelle if you're willing to do so. Going into next year, what's the thing? So outside of the generic business acumen that we have to continue to iterate on and take in, What are you keyed in as something pretty specific and different going into 2025?
[01:11:05.610] - Chris
Well, for me, this last year, really the last few years, discipline has been such a key theme in my life. You always wish you could accomplish more or you could change more in a shorter period of time. But the reality is I'm getting the end of this year, and I can see certain areas of my life where I've exercised really great discipline in some new areas where I've been able to create more discipline in. And then, of course, the other thing is you start to see in stark contrast all the areas that you're very undisciplined and a total mess. I think for me, discipline is another key theme, in particular with my office time. I just talked about the creative development and stuff like that. I do need to work on complete versus perfect. I think that's a thing I need to lean into and exercise more is output. Output rather than getting things exactly the way I want them. And again, a big part of that's ego I'm starting to recognize. For example, I submitted an article to you, Michelle, one time, and you looked at it, you're like, oh, man, this is so good.
[01:12:13.530] - Chris
I was just like, and it connected with you, this article. In the back of my mind, I thought it was dog shit. I wasn't feeling good about it. I feel like I just threw this together. I wasn't feeling great about it. I was having trouble getting my ideas all I had. And then it was good for you. You read it without all of that stuff. And you're like, oh, this totally connects with me. I was thinking about the same thing or processing a similar thing. So I think I need to work on that. But discipline around how I use my time between eight and five is just a growing edge for me. Because, again, I believe, and I've had moments where, like I found, if I can just be delivered with that, I don't need to work till eight o'clock. So that's a growing edge for me. The other thing, too, for this next year is I just realized that the quality of my marriage has such a overflow effect on the rest of my life that it's a thing that I've invested pretty heavily in in the last couple of years. But I just, I realized that there's certain things that I'm unsatisfied with, and I know my wife is, too.
[01:13:20.070] - Chris
There's just certain aspects of our relationship. We married, it'll be 23 years in March that I'm unhappy with. And I think our tendency is, especially as you get older, is just to push those things down or dismiss those things that aren't quite working. It's like, well, it's good enough or meh. At some point we'll figure that out. And I'm just realizing that if I can invest in the difficult conversations and that stuff, it always has this positive downstream effect in the other areas of my life. When I'm ignoring or not dealing with certain aspects of my marriage relationship with my wife, and she's not with me and all the things, it also has a downstream effect on the other areas and relationships in my life. Those are the two things I'm keyed in on outside of just professional skill development and whatever, because I think they have the most far-reaching impact on the other areas. Yeah, they're exponential.
[01:14:17.130] - Brandon
What about you?
[01:14:17.270] - Michelle
I think that discipline comment is interesting because I do think that we go through phases in life where the discipline is really good, especially in some areas. Then we go through other phases of life where it just isn't quite there. I don't know why that is. Sometimes I think it's God nudging me to focus on something else. I've been really disciplined in this, and we can't be disciplined in everything. Where are our priorities? Priorities are constantly shifting, even if it is within our families. You were just saying I'm impressed if you're focusing on your marriage, specifically or a specific area of your marriage, even if you get more specific. Discipline is something really interesting. The more that I have learned to give myself grace to be human, the better I feel like I've able to meet those problems and find the right discipline, which seems counterintuitive. But I think all three of us are probably people that are pretty hard on ourselves and have pretty high standards for ourselves. The more I allow myself to say, It's okay that you didn't kill it today because you still tried and you're still going to get it done and it's still going to be okay.
[01:15:24.540] - Michelle
And work is still going to be there tomorrow or whatever that may be. Okay, so To actually answer your question, so I try to pick a word every year that I feel like God has put on my heart and it's like, that's what my word is going to be for the year. So a couple of years ago, the word that God had given me was abundance. That was for 2023. And that was that word really played out in everything because I didn't mean it even in financial sense. I meant it abundance in relationships, abundance in love and connection with my family, an abundance of opportunities. And It did pan out in probably every aspect of the word. Then this year, going into it without knowing what the year held, intentionality was the word. This year took every ounce of intentionality that I had. If I'm going to be really honest, this was not a great year. It was actually a very, very difficult year in a lot of ways. Personal, professional, it was just a very difficult year that played out. The intentionality played out. The goals, especially in a business, I guess, that we had made, which has to do with systems and processes.
[01:16:37.630] - Michelle
I know that the three of us have talked about that. That is how we're ending the year. We did get there, which is so interesting. Those words were put on my heart before I knew what the year was going to turn out to be, and that is exactly what I needed for the year. Looking ahead to 2025, I haven't totally landed on my word yet, but it's somewhere in the realm of peace, joy, somewhere in there, going out of this year with more open hands, letting things go a little bit more in an intentional way, and just knowing that the business is going to continue to grow, and that I don't have to go through it like this, worried that it's going to go away tomorrow because it's not and it's going to be okay. And trusting myself, trusting the team, leaning more into my family and being more intentional with those work hours like we've talked about. So somewhere in that realm, I'm looking forward to being done with my MBA. Had I known the year that I was going to have adding an MBA in there was not a good idea. We're building a house that was also probably not a good idea.
[01:17:37.310] - Michelle
Plus two small children, I don't really make good life choices is what it's come down to. So I'm very much- Don't go out and buy a puppy, That's all I can say. Oh, my gosh. Absolutely not. So I don't make great life choices. In 2025, I am striving for something that is less wrecking on my entire nervous system. How about that?
[01:17:57.440] - Brandon
Yeah, that's smart. You know, I think one of the things that I found myself leaning into towards the end of this year, and I don't even say it was leaning into, it was actually probably being pulled out of me. That is, I just have to do... I want to be a better equipping leader. You made a comment earlier about casting clarity around where we're going and what we're doing. And the reality is when you said that out loud, it was a gut check for me because I actually don't fully agree with you. I think this year, I was way more reactionary than I wanted to inside the business. And part of that for people that don't know, I still carry my own client book. And in fact, it's a pretty robust client book. And so it's not for the week. And that takes up a substantial part of my life, professional life. Yet I have aspirations not only to scale floodlight at the pace that we're intending to, but we also, again, have other opportunities that from our entrepreneurial DNA make a lot of sense, and we're very interested and exciting to see what we can do.
[01:19:04.640] - Brandon
All that to be said, I think that in order for me to earn the ability and the right to fill the role that I want to fill, I'm going to have to get way more intentional moving into next year about being able to cast vision and remind people why we're doing the things that we're doing and why it's so important to hold the line on the things that we've committed to. It's been a calling this year. Again, Wayne and several other team members and people in our sphere have been good about nudging and reminding me because I teach people this for a living. Then I've just really struggled this year to keep my head clear enough to be doing that on a consistent basis. I got some work to do over Christmas break to just prepare on how I'm going to go into next year more disciplined there and thinking through that. I think for me is just this concept of visionary. It doesn't mean having all these brilliant ideas or so creative and having strategies all dialed in and figured out because I'm surrounded by really smart people, and they have really smart concepts and ideas that they would like to deploy.
[01:20:14.690] - Brandon
I think a lot of them, if I take them seriously, they are the wins, they are the how. I just have to do a better job of breathing fire into what we're doing and why we're doing it. I just need to work on that visionering. How can I be more visionary as a How can I be more consistent and pointing to the why and really leaning into the team and the people around me to go ahead and feel free to develop the how? That would be freeing. It would be really powerful. I think it's what I'm naturally equipped to do. I just can struggle because tasks create value. It's like when I'm doing the thing or perceived, in my mind, it's easier to attach Roy. It's to consulting book, to this tasking, this process, this responsibility. The reality of it is every single time I get gut checked or have one of those moments where I go, God, that doesn't feel very good, it's because I wasn't casting vision. I was tasking. I was delivering service. It's this stupid play that as owners, we can get caught up in. Next year for me is I'd really want to lean in being the visionary leader to the team and not allowing tasks or distractions pull me out of that.
[01:21:37.160] - Brandon
I don't know how I'm going to get there, but we'll figure it out. It'll be a long year, I'm sure.
[01:21:41.070] - Chris
You just help me clarify, actually, my direction for next year, because I think when I talk about discipline during the day, I realize that my natural wiring is I don't inherently have a detail orientation, and I don't tend to be process-driven. Any amount of process compliance that I have is very intentional. But what I'm realizing as we grow, what's being demanded of me as we scale and we pursue some of these bigger opportunities is if I'm not disciplined enough in how reliable I am in certain systems and processes with the team, I become a barrier and a stumbling block for the rest of the team. So when I talk about discipline, like during the day hours, for me, I think that's the next hurdle I need to develop systems for myself that allow me to not get in the way and potentially hold back the team. Because it's easy, and I think all of us as owners and business people contend with this at some point, right? It's like, I have certain things that I'll never be rad at. And the temptation sometimes is to just toss those things over your shoulder. Just be like, you know what?
[01:22:53.670] - Chris
I'm awesome at this. I'm just going to focus on this, and everything else can just fall off the plate. And for a number of years, that worked for me. And we're getting now to the stage where it's like, that's getting in the way. And from time to time, it's frustrating other people on the team that in some cases, they have to play cleanup for Nordike. And not only is it not fair, but it gets in the way of the growth and the maturing that we're trying to do in the business. And so for me, it's going to be all... It just has to be about a baseline level of systems and discipline and process adherence that I bring myself so that I don't become a singer or a bottleneck.
[01:23:34.890] - Michelle
Something that has significantly helped me really quick, and we've been going for a while. But anyway, this might help other people that are listening. I front load my weeks. I have found that I get very overwhelmed if I have a lot of calls later in the week to the point that it almost throttles my ability to be effective early in the week because I look at heavy days later in the week and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have to get through three full days of work before having a marathon on calls for six hours on Thursday or a bunch of podcast recordings, which I think all of us can attest to. They take a different level of brainpower than a regular phone conversation. Podcasting is really fun, but engaging in conversations like this, it just different. So I front load my week pretty heavily. My Mondays are stacked. I have back to back meetings all of Monday, but then I know once I get through Monday, that feels like a huge win for me because I know that I got... It's like our team meetings are on Monday. If I have individual meetings with any of my team, for the most part, it's Monday.
[01:24:34.280] - Michelle
But then we're setting those expectations really early in the week. We're able to carry those through. I know what everybody's up to. We go through, is anybody stuck on anything? Where is everybody at? And that has helped me significantly in my ability to be effective and be disciplined the rest of the week, knowing once I get through those hard days at the beginning of the week, I can block out times maybe for recordings or projects or other things that I know I need to get done and not feel guilty see later in the week for having grayed out my schedule in that area for Michelle to do Michelle work. Because I know that I've done other things and met other people were there at and protective of my schedule now. I've learned because how many times do people email you back, No, that doesn't work for me. Can we do a different day? Well, I used to be the type that would bow to everyone's schedule. I will work around you. Even if it kills me, I will work around you. No, nobody needs to be that way. It is okay to say, Well, how about next week at 10:00 AM on whatever day?
[01:25:29.790] - Michelle
The three of us went through that with trying to schedule a few things recently because we're all so busy and it's okay.
[01:25:35.430] - Chris
Yeah.
[01:25:36.040] - Brandon
No, I agree. That's smart. I think you're right. I think, too, it's even if you start slotting things in later in the week, you just go in with more confidence because you just crushed Monday through Wednesday or whatever. You're like, Hey, Friday got full. You know what? We did three days of this already. Let's pound out another one and call. That's smart. Well, that was fun.
[01:25:58.600] - Chris
Well, here we are. That was 2024.
[01:26:02.240] - Brandon
Yeah. I can't believe it. I can't believe it, kids. It's over. It's over. I'm totally okay with it.
[01:26:11.840] - Michelle
Me too. I need to make this an annual tradition, though, because I want to check in this time next year with you guys and see where you're at and how things went.
[01:26:21.100] - Brandon
Yeah, I love it. Let's do it. I think that would be super fun. And you know what? On a side note, we do need to think through having some fun this year, coming up in 25, some stuff we can do together. We certainly need to get that on the calendar. But I like the year in review tradition. We should do that. That would be fun. I like it because we did one last year, too.
[01:26:40.180] - Michelle
We did. Yeah, we did. I think podcasts like this, honestly, are probably more relatable than a lot of the businessy stuff that both of us put out. No offense to you guys or to myself, I suppose. But yeah. Hey, stay tuned for CNR's top articles because there's at least one floodlight article that's in the top most read for the year.
[01:26:58.750] - Chris
Oh, really? Oh, hot dog.
[01:27:00.290] - Brandon
That's fun.
[01:27:01.120] - Michelle
Cool. That's always great. I haven't done all the lists yet, but I was working on them last week, and I'm going to finish them up today. So stay tuned. Nice.
[01:27:08.490] - Chris
Right on. That's fun. When are we putting this out?
[01:27:10.640] - Brandon
Did we decide we'll do this over Christmas week? Is that This podcast? Yeah, well, maybe I'll talk to the crew. Maybe that's when we'll throw this one out and then somebody can... They can start their day with us on Christmas morning when they're with their family. Of course. Just turn us on and have it in the back. No, I'm kidding. That's perfect. That's when we'll put it up.
[01:27:29.720] - Michelle
The balance and discipline is working out really well for our listeners.
[01:27:33.280] - Brandon
Exactly. Way to turn it off, guys. Hey, what a rad year. Thanks for hanging out with us all year, Michelle. We value our friendship to you. It's been good. I think we've at times been the person creating a little emotion in your life, and at times we've maybe been supported.Posit.
[01:27:52.310] - Chris
To negative emotion. That's right.
[01:27:54.220] - Brandon
I'm sure. It's the yin and yang.
[01:27:55.580] - Michelle
I feel like you guys have PTSD from several years ago that you're never going to get No, no, no.
[01:28:01.300] - Brandon
Don't get nervous dick about it. It's pretty amazing.
[01:28:04.690] - Chris
Sometimes I pick up my phone to text Brandon, and I'm like, Stop. Stop it, Chris.
[01:28:12.880] - Brandon
Insight. It's amazing.
[01:28:14.780] - Michelle
Yeah.
[01:28:15.820] - Brandon
Well, love you, friend. Thanks for a bad year. We'll see you in 2025.
[01:28:20.680] - Michelle
Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, guys.
[01:28:23.860] - Brandon
All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots.
[01:28:29.290] - Chris
If you're enjoying the show, or you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.