[00:00:00.000] - Chris
Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast. I'm Chris.
[00:00:11.200] - Brandon
And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours.
[00:00:20.930] - Chris
I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose.
[00:00:24.020] - Brandon
No, I don't. I didn't, and I am not happy with it.
[00:00:28.270] - Chris
Yeah,
[00:00:28.840] - Brandon
bro.
[00:00:29.410] - Chris
It was a little premature, wasn't it?
[00:00:30.770] - Brandon
Yeah, you jumped the gun a little bit, but it wasn't too bad. All right, man, I'm going right at this thing. I'm so excited for this topic.
[00:00:36.700] - Chris
Well, I'm curious. It looks pretty nerdy. You were scribbling notes.
[00:00:39.970] - Brandon
It's hell of nerdy. I had to write down a couple of things specifically because I didn't want to
[00:00:45.140] - Chris
Should we run it through ChatGPT?
[00:00:46.640] - Brandon
Yeah, I need to because I didn't want to say it wrong and do it a disservice. Okay, so stage setter. Okay. Stage setter. I'm 48. You're a little bit 46?
[00:00:56.820] - Chris
45, thanks.
[00:00:57.730] - Brandon
45, jeez. Okay, 45. I'm deep into 48, headed to 49, unfortunately.
[00:01:03.920] - Chris
For those that don't relate to these age numbers because you're older or younger, Brandon's at the age where when he needs to look at his phone or read a post-it note or something, he's got to hold it about 40 inches out in front of him.
[00:01:17.960] - Brandon
That's right. I think that's actually the optimal distance. It's actually just under 40 inches. For those of you not watching the video, I'm also holding up my dumb readers that I have to have poised all over the office house.
[00:01:30.620] - Chris
Just as a point of reference.
[00:01:31.760] - Brandon
Yeah, just as a point of reference. Now, I can still bench press more than maybe quite a few of the people listening.
[00:01:36.760] - Chris
Probably.
[00:01:37.880] - Brandon
I don't even know if that's true anymore. Anyways, all right, here's the deal. This second half topic, this midlife topic, has come up a few times. But I actually ran into some interesting stuff not that long ago. If I remember right, it might have been one of the big two or three podcasts that we listened to. Anyways, the person Arthur Brooks. He's now a current traveling professor at a Harvard-level Ivy League College, and he teaches very specifically on some transitions that our brains go through. Specifically in this case, through his own experience, He was able to, through research, start to identify actually what's happening and that when people understand it, instead of running into a conflict in this perceived decline, we can actually proactively lean in and maximize what's happening because it's not only the loss of something, it's also the gaining of something else. You're with me so far? I'm with you so far. Okay. The concept is that for many of us, let's say you're in the really late '30s, starting to move into the '40s, you may find, for example, you're putting out in order to get the same level of production.
[00:02:54.050] - Brandon
This isn't just physically. We're really talking about mental and mental energy. You may find in order to get the same result that it's more taxing than it was before. Or the things like the grind in quotes that you've been gunning on for the last decade, all of a sudden you're having more mornings in the week where you're like, holy cow, this is exhausting. Or in general, you're finding yourself slowing down on innovation, creativity. Like your ability to come up with the new plan, the new concept is just weaning a bit. And what's interesting is that this is an actual chemical process that's happening inside the body. The challenge that we have as individuals is when we don't understand it and lean in and begin to adapt our goals, our focus with this in mind, you can be in this perpetual state of feeling old or feeling like you're declining or feeling confused because your ego is still stuck at two, these things you were good at at one time, but you're now good at something else and you may not realize it. I was leaning in on this, man. When I heard this, because for those of you that have heard the show more than once, you understand we've hired some younger guns into the team.
[00:04:10.020] - Brandon
We talk about Wayne all the time. Not that the guy is perfect. The guy certainly can make me furiated from time to time, and I know I can piss him off, but he's unbelievably capable, and he's a young man. I get this pressure. Sometimes as a leader, I'm like, I should be able to solve problems as fast as he does. I should have this innovation, this creativity, this solution finding like he does. You know, recently, Chris, we had a phase where I was caught in my own ego around this, and I was feeling frustrated, and it was creating some tension between he and I in terms of what's the role I really should be leaning into? Where do I get out of his way? What freedoms do I continue to give him? We've had several ways that we've fixed that, that we get into relationship, we talk walk through stuff just like you and I do. But for the first time in a long time, all of a sudden, I understood at a high level what was happening. Because I started to understand this, the confidence that I had to lean out of the lane that he should be in and lean more prolifically into the lane I should be in, the way that my mind is processing that is so much different because I'm armed with this knowledge.
[00:05:27.010] - Brandon
I just did the 14-minute that should be the buzz. Okay, so here's it. There's two kinds of intelligence that a person lives in. There's one that is deemed or called the fluid intelligence, and then there's one called the crystallized intelligence. This is scientific. This isn't an opinion. Sure. This is backed with research. Fluid intelligence is the stuff that we use and leverage in our day-to-day life, pretty much up until, in most cases, into our young 30. Once 30 hits, there's a a mid-ground that you begin to move into. And once you get into your mid-forties, later forties, you begin to move into crystallized intelligence. And if you don't understand the difference between these two things, that's where you begin to feel a decline and you start to compete and protect your ego. And really, it can become very destructive. This is part in what produces midlife crisis and burnout. Okay. All right? Are you with me? Okay, so in a fluid intelligence, this is our problem solving. This is innovation. This is creativity. You're building your works of art, for instance. So example, this is true in musicians, financial professionals, attorneys. There's this piece in their younger years where you will see, and if you look back in history, most of the most beautiful influential work that was created, launched, or developed is often done before the age of 40.
[00:07:02.640] - Brandon
Then what happens is that people keep trying. But if you look at their body of work, and this is true in a lot of cases with writers, I mean, this is very common. There's anomalies everywhere, but this is very comment, this declined. So all the buzz, the flash happened earlier, and then they spend the trailing year of their career trying to do it again unsuccessful. Then when somebody moves into crystallized intelligence, this obviously happens 40 on, this is accumulated knowledge, deep insight, the recognition of patterns. Meaning you've spent enough time doing the innovating and doing the creation and problem solving that you just know what you know now. When you see things, your ability to interpret the information at a broader scale is better as well. The idea here, the principle of what Arthur is talking about is that as individuals, if we're really keyed in on this understanding, we can in the later 30s, going into our 40s, we can begin to prepare and shift our strategy and our focus and our roles and our businesses to become more in alignment and leverage the crystallized intelligence and not lose ourselves in the process.
[00:08:21.800] - Chris
Okay.
[00:08:22.220] - Brandon
Right? Yeah. I mean, for me, man, this is that stuff that sometimes I tap into that just freaks me out because it explains so much of what my world is experiencing. And then all of a sudden I'm like, oh, my gosh, that makes total sense.
[00:08:37.510] - Chris
Well, you know what that feeds into is... It's like if you understand that you possess crystallized intelligence and that your main superpower has become or is becoming the ability to spot patterns, and then make judgments from that and make decisions from that pattern recognition, or that your primary intelligence now is about synthesizing different pieces of information and knowledge and understanding, versus coming up with creative ideas, driving innovation, it helps me a better lead. Because if I recognize, Hey, look, a Wayne is chemically going to be more capable, likely, of coming up with better ideas and innovation than I, then I can set back and give him all the space he needs to do that, knowing that there's going to be an opportunity for me to use my intelligence to help vet those ideas, based on the pattern recognition and my ability to synthesize different bits of data and information, that we can work really collaboratively to create something more powerful, more efficient, more profitable, more whatever. A hundred %. Then if Wayne was purely relying on his own intuition and knowledge and intelligence, together we can bring those two things to create better outcomes.
[00:10:16.840] - Brandon
That's it. Yeah. I think another way to consider this is that we've been exposed to and we've leaned a lot into two fundamental, I guess, thoughts, processes, whatever. One being definition of done and the other one thinking through the buy-in equation. Our friend Casey introduced us, I think, more formally to the buy-in equation. It's a very powerful tool. Two concepts very quickly. Buy-in equation is this idea that the quality of the idea times the buy-in of the team will equal execution. You could have a great idea that you developed, the team doesn't have any buy-in on, and your execution will be dog crap. The idea could be decent. Buy-in is crazy high because they came up with it. Execution is 90%, right? So important. The difference is important. Then the other idea is this definition of done. What that is simply is that when you put a project in the hands of your team, when you put an initiative, a quarterly rock in the hands of your team. As the highest level key leader, CEOs, business owners, founders, a lot of times your responsibility is to help create a clear definition of done. Don't tell them how.
[00:11:27.980] - Brandon
Tell them very specifically what need to see as an outcome. If you think about that example, for instance, in this concept, then it makes so much sense that you as the leader that's been around the block, you've had your nose bloodied several times. You just understand what data is telling you more readily in terms of just the broad worldview on the business. You're very capable of saying what I need as an outcome. Likely, you're leaning hard into that crystallized intelligence. You're saying, My scars have taught me, my clients need to experience X. Or from my perspective, in order for this to make sense culturally, we need to accomplish this thing, definition of done. But then get out of the way of all that youth and superpower in your business and let them use the fluid intelligence to create the how, because that's where the innovation and the creativity comes into place. They're going to create the plan of how to get you what you need, but you've got to use that to create a clear definition of done. It's like when I frame something from that perspective, it makes it so much easier for me to adjust the value that I find in myself professionally by leaning to what my body and my system is actually designed better to do now.
[00:12:51.420] - Chris
Well, it's interesting you bring this up because this reminds me of Dan Martell.
[00:12:55.540] - Brandon
Oh, yeah, very much so.
[00:12:56.640] - Chris
Dan Martell talks a lot about this of just the... I Like, really, he's built his empire in his portfolio of success around getting really clear with his partners and his people about what the outcome needs to look like, and then just holding them accountable to that. Of course, he talks a fair bit around hiring the best talent you can afford at all times. Not looking for deals in the talent marketplace, but paying people really well, and you'll always get better outcome. Yeah. But he talks about this, and I think that speaks to this crystallized intelligence of we know what the outcome needs to look like based on these patterns of experience. But the how to get there, I mean, it sounds like this Arthur C. Brooks thing is that we probably don't actually have the best ideas anymore. Our brain is not tuned in our 40s to come up with the broadest spectrum of possibilities and ways of doing things. Our downline people are probably more suited for that, if we're honest, which is such a hard thing, especially if you're a guy like Dan Martell and you've already got your McLaren, and you know you're the shit because you have these material.
[00:14:13.080] - Brandon
Maybe for him, it's easier, actually.
[00:14:14.820] - Chris
It might be. I don't know.
[00:14:16.240] - Brandon
To make this shift. Yeah, maybe it is.
[00:14:18.420] - Chris
But I think it's hard for most of us, though, to get over that hump. You talked about how it's been a journey for you.
[00:14:24.920] - Brandon
Yeah, it's a day-to-day thing. It's interesting because I want to... Just to add this level of depth, because I actually think this is very important, is that Arthur C. Brooks, too, is also very adamant. His book is written for strivers. This is not something that you tell somebody that's still struggling to get out of their parents' basement. What he's saying is for those type A's, those drivers, those builders, the people that are in constant state of motion trying to achieve, this is very relevant because there becomes a point where the The energy that we are deploying is not yielding the returns and something's going to give. Like either mentally, emotionally, we start to break down because we lose confidence. We're frustrated by the lack of performance or maybe the lack of the outcome based in context with the level of effort being delivered. Again, I do want to stage set because that's what he's talking about here. He's talking about for those folks that are grinding gears and they're good at working their face off. Something does to give. Otherwise, you will. That's what he's trying to prevent, is these catastrophic mental breakdowns that happen in the form of burnout.
[00:15:39.840] - Brandon
One of the things that he was talking about with this is this very natural evolution into a more coaching, guiding type role. What's so interesting, man, it's like, I think sometimes when I get exposed to ideas like this, you just realize how many times you've been told or learned some version this over your lifetime. But each time you return to the topic with a slightly different perspective, it just makes it more clear and concrete. I have a bit of a Christian environment that I've been around since probably my early 20s on. You obviously grew up in a church environment, and I think it's very common inside religious and church environments to hear things like, you should always have a mentee and you should probably always have a mentor. I've heard this often with men, especially, this is true probably for humans, but men, I've been told, Hey, it's very healthy to have somebody you're pouring into and having somebody out in front of you. You're submitting to. Yeah, exactly. It's funny Because this is like, I'm not trying to get religious, but it's just so interesting to me how often I'm learning that science backs some of these things that have been used or deployed in religious environments.
[00:17:00.000] - Brandon
It's like, science is making this happen. This is natural evolution of the human design. Over time, as you age, you're actually being equipped to move into a mentor-type relationship. Sure. You're being designed for it.
[00:17:17.700] - Chris
Yeah, we're built for it. I think religion helps give us definition to things that we feel and experience. It gives us words and language to describe these things. And then I think science over time, it comes around and validates those things. It says, oh, by the way, that's actually real, and here's why that's real. But yeah, it's interesting. I think the reason why maybe this is important is our ego, our identity gets so wrapped up in our fluid intelligence.
[00:17:58.440] - Brandon
For sure.
[00:17:59.390] - Chris
Like Their identity gets really caught up in what I know, the value in what I know. And so as that starts to shift, it's like there's a denial that sets in. Yeah. And I think that all of us deal with that denial differently. I mean, some of us get into the gym.
[00:18:18.420] - Brandon
Yeah.
[00:18:18.900] - Chris
And it's just like, we're going to fight. I'm going to outrun it. I'm going to fight this inevitable thing that's happening. Yeah. Right. And therefore, it's not happening. Because we feel like We can control it. We can harness that lightning. That's right. Yeah. But at the end of the day, there's certain things that we can't outrun.
[00:18:38.080] - Brandon
That's right.
[00:18:38.960] - Chris
And that really offends the ego.
[00:18:40.660] - Brandon
Oh, yeah.
[00:18:41.420] - Chris
Because we've spent most of our life up until then as we can adapt and outrun anything we choose to in some ways. Yeah. There's a lot we've figured out. I can outrun this. I can outsmart this. And then you get to a point where it's like, okay, I actually probably don't have the ability or the capacity to outrun those things. That's a really tough thing to swallow. It is. But I think what you talk about, though, is then I become more interdependent on others to maximize the value I able to bring.
[00:19:15.540] - Brandon
Yeah, it's leading through others. It's so interesting to me, man, all these just layers of, okay, that makes sense. I think what you just highlighted, right?
[00:19:28.380] - Chris
I have a thing I'm looking up, by the way.
[00:19:30.000] - Brandon
Okay, yeah. Gpt here, though. So one of the things I just want to highlight based on what you just said, because I think it's really important, is that mentioning of the ego component. I think what this empowers us to ultimately be able to do is that it allows us to look at this and say, Hey, I can actually proactively lean into developing this, setting the stage, looking for my succession plan inside the entity. And not only is it okay, I think that's what I want to try to promote here is it's It's not simply that it's okay to do that, it's actually the right thing to do. Like, your team is going to get more from you if you lean in to the right space based on age and just maturity versus continuing to try to be the star quarterback. You know what I mean?
[00:20:16.360] - Chris
You know what this reminds me of is probably 15 years ago. My friend John Birdquist, who passed away actually when he was 50 in a car accident here five years ago, maybe. He's young, dude. Anyway, so he and I, one of the first things that I... How I got to know him was he invited me to this John Eldridge. Oh, yeah. Men's Retreat. So for those of you that don't know John Eldridge, he wrote this super famous book called Wild at Heart. He's written a bunch of other books, though, too. It's a great book. Whether you're religious or not, it's a great book, I think, for men. I think it's awesome. One of the other books that I found really useful, and it's got more of a religious title to it, but I found it incredibly useful, was this book called Fathered by God. It's where Eldridge breaks down what he believes to be the six stages of manhood that we move through. Interesting. Or we're intended to move through.
[00:21:12.340] - Brandon
Is this heroic journey, is that part of that mix?
[00:21:15.080] - Chris
Well, that's part of his whole narrative. That's the stuff he talks about. I think he referenced that in a lot of his books. So what's interesting is these are the six stages of manhood because I think it speaks to what you're talking about. And a part of the premise, by the way, is that he speaks to these stages as essential and fundamental to becoming a whole man. And so he's speaking to masculinity, and he has a whole other book that his wife and he co-wrote for women along the same lines. But he feels like these are Impulsory. Things happen to us in our life that cause us to miss out on certain stages because of our own earthly fathering or family culture, trauma, and different things like that. We'll miss these stages and how essential it is for men to go back and recover those stages on purpose. Interesting. Okay, so hang with me. Yeah.
[00:22:05.120] - Brandon
Sounds like another episode.
[00:22:06.330] - Chris
Yeah, I know. But I think it all runs together in a way. So the first stage is the boyhood stage, which is the beloved son. And the core need is to know that they're loved and delighted in. They're desirable and they're loved, basically. And it's essential that a boy learns that about themselves. Okay? And I'll come back to what he says, if you missed this stage, you didn't get this, because certainly there's many men that did not grow up in that environment in their early years. They didn't feel that. They didn't feel those things, right? What is it called again? One more time. It's called Fathered by God. And the first stage is the boyhood stage, which is referred to as the beloved son. That's the identity that's important for a boy to achieve, I guess. Then the second one is the cowboy stage. This is early teens to 20s. And the core need is adventure, exploration. The primary lesson of this stage is you have what it takes.
[00:23:08.300] - Chris
Are you a business that's under 5 million in sales, and you're just now getting ready to try and scale your company up and hit some of those targets you've always wanted to hit, but now you've got to build a sales team? Or maybe you just hired your first sales rep, but you don't really know how to manage them. How do you manage, lead, train, develop a sales rep? Floodlight has a solution for you now. So we can actually assign your sales rep a turnkey VP ERP of sales that will help them create a sales blueprint, their own personal sales plan for your market. They'll have weekly one-on-ones with that sales rep to coach, mentor them, hold them accountable to the plan. And they'll also have a monthly owners meeting where they'll meet with you or your general manager and review the progress of that sales rep, their plan to actual results, what performance improvement they're working on with them. Also let them know, Hey, they're doing really well. Maybe we should think of hiring a second sales rep. They're going to have that one-to-one advice for you as an owner or senior leader on the team as well.
[00:24:02.130] - Chris
How great would that be to have a bolt-on sales manager for your one sales rep, and it's only 2,500 bucks a month? If you're interested in talking more about that, reach out. Let's grab some time and let's talk shop.
[00:24:14.240] - Chris
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[00:24:34.440] - Brandon
This is good.
[00:24:36.060] - Chris
It's really good.
[00:24:36.760] - Brandon
This is an oldy but goody, dude.
[00:24:38.500] - Chris
It's really good. And then the third stage is the warrior stage. This is late teens to 30s. And The core need is there's a battle to fight. This is what they need present in their life. There's a battle to fight, a strength to prove, or a mission to embrace. And the primary lesson is you are strong and capable. Right? I have the capacity and ability to fight for things. Their importance extends beyond my own self. This is fighting for others. This is learning that whole stage of defending others, et cetera. The fourth stage is the lover stage. And this is mid to late 20s and onward. The core need being to learn intimacy, beauty, and emotional depth. The primary lesson is your heart and what's happening inside you matters. It matters to your overall well-being. And I think that some men never, ever get this, right? And so there's just a- So some of these almost parallel each other.
[00:25:39.380] - Brandon
Yeah. What I just heard there.
[00:25:40.420] - Chris
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, so then interesting. So after the lover stage, and of course, this involves the having initial romantic relationships, getting married, right, establishing a family and stuff, right? Yeah. And then he talks about the king stage, which is, and this happens for different people, right, differently for folks, late '30s through their '60s. Some of us are late bloomers. We don't really start establishing a kingdom until some of us in our '40s, right? But the core need is to rule with wisdom, protect others, and to build a legacy. Interesting. And the primary lesson is that you begin carrying the weight of others' lives, not just your own. And then finally, the sixth stage is the sage. And this tends to be late '60s and onward. But I think, especially as wealth creation has started to accelerate in our Western culture, I think some meant... I know of a couple of guys that I see entering that stage in their '40s. But generally, this is late '60s and onward. And I think the other reason for that, why it still tends to be late '60s, I've heard him speak to this, is because even though we may have the financial wherewithal to move into that stage earlier on, is that generally our egos are going to perpetuate the king building, the empire building.
[00:27:05.080] - Chris
And so while we could step in and we have something to offer in that sage role, we tend to delay moving into the sage because so much of our identity and our pleasure is tied in continuing to stack the chips.
[00:27:19.720] - Brandon
That's right.
[00:27:20.300] - Chris
That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's also not fundamentally a good thing that we want to hang in that stage and delay being a sage. But it says, so the core need in the sage stage, I have to really pause for that one, is to impart wisdom, offer counsel, and bless the next generation. The primary lesson there is your voice and experience matters.
[00:27:45.340] - Brandon
Man, that aligns.
[00:27:47.120] - Chris
I love this book, and I know this is a little pivot off of where you started, but I think it all aligns. I think so. The interesting thing for me, when I went through that, it was a three-day men's weekend. It was a very emotional one. For all of us that were there, it was like 40 dudes at this thing, many of them business owners. And there was this realization that a lot of the dysfunctions and the struggles and negative things that they were experiencing, and I was experiencing in my life at that time, which this was like 15 years ago or something, are a result of having never moved through one of those stages. And for me, one of the things that I realized about myself, and it was really, I think a product of my dad never moving through that as well because he was not fathered in a particular way, was the cowboy stage. There was a gap. This was 15 years ago. I could tell you four or five things that I intentionally did from this weekend to reclaim and almost refather myself. I know it sounds weird to some people listening, but I had to intentionally refather myself through the cowboy stage of learning.
[00:29:00.760] - Chris
I'm capable. I've got what it takes. Because my dad, I don't think his father ever stewarded, I guess, that portion of his job. And so my dad, I think there was an element where he never experienced that risk-taking and adventure and discovering I can handle myself, I can handle life, and anything is thrown at me. And therefore, there was these key parts of my life, too, where I did not have a certain confidence in myself and to basically deal with whatever, come what may. I can handle it. There was a part of that that was underdeveloped in me. I was encountering struggle and difficulty, and it was really like it was causing problems for me. But I was able to go back and do certain things, and I'll just say one thing that I did, it was very arbitrary, that made a profound difference in my self-confidence in this area was snow camping.
[00:29:58.880] - Brandon
Oh, yeah.
[00:29:59.760] - Chris
This This was about that time when I started doing that. I didn't know until I did it. I just started saying yes to things was part of the stage for me. Another example was this happened about 10, 12 years ago. A buddy was like, Hey, do you want to climb Middle Sister with me? I'd never climbed mountains. I didn't know if I could do it. Ultimately, it actually was a terrible hardship for me because I have a torn meniscus in my knee and coming down 19 miles. It was absolute misery.
[00:30:27.770] - Brandon
You have done it.
[00:30:28.450] - Chris
It showed me something about myself when I got on the other side of it. The same thing was true. I had some actually some legit scary experiences, snow camping, some life-threatening situations, where it showed me a part of myself that my dad, for whatever reason, for a whole variety of reasons, was not able to help me see in myself earlier on. But I found that really powerful that there are these arbitrary things that we must progress through as a man. If we don't, there's a real gap in what we're able to offer other people. Yeah, for sure. Our own personal capacity for things. But if you do, if you're intentional about that, I think by the time we get to these stages and our intelligence is shifting, I think part of us going back and recovering some of those parts that maybe some of us missed is I think it allows us to maybe shift into what you're talking about more successfully. Our ego doesn't hold us back quite as vigorously when we get to that stage because we've learned how to double down on certain things at certain parts of our life, but then to hang up certain things, too, as time goes by.
[00:31:41.340] - Chris
To recognize it's like, okay, I have what I need. Now it's coming this time where it's my role is to, and we're okay with it. Yeah.
[00:31:52.500] - Brandon
It's spot on, dude. Look, I think this is where I think we ended up going, ultimately, I think we just often end up suffering because we don't have a broader understanding of what's happening. It's like...
[00:32:10.260] - Chris
We're fighting what is.
[00:32:11.440] - Brandon
We're fighting what is. We're fighting reality. Instead of, and I'm going to only speak for myself. I have a lot of patterns that I will deploy to protect myself. Everything from different types of substance abuse that I've explored and experimented with. There's digital entertainment. There's a lot of things that I have to hold at bay and stay present to the pain, the challenge, the thing, the emotion that I'm facing in that moment, because when I do, I learn. When I learn, it changes the way that I approach a similar situation in the future. That's what we're alluding to. We're all pretty good at surviving, but that's not thriving. I think one of the things that I'm just learning more and more of is that in order to thrive, that's not necessarily a product of money, wealth, titles, certain awards or successes. Thriving is you being at home in the current state of things And ultimately, and again, I couldn't have told you this two weeks ago even, but it's this idea of you being more aligned with what your system is currently designed to be doing. I think that that's when you begin to find this It's like you're aware enough of I need to make these shifts, not out of guilt or shame or demand.
[00:33:36.180] - Brandon
It's because I'm designed to be doing that. This isn't you doing something because you have to. It's doing something because it's part of the flow. It's part of the process. It would be the same way you get tired swimming upstream. That's what we're doing. Emotionally and chemically, we're trying to swim upstream instead of going the way that it's intending to take us because it's taking us the right place. It's designed to move us through these growth and maturity patterns in our life. When we lean into those the right way, we're empowered to be able to do something with it. We can show up and be our best version of that versus kicking and screaming and doing some half-ass or subdued version of what you want to be versus what you're intended to be. I don't know, man. This stuff for me as I get older, it's just fun.
[00:34:29.620] - Chris
I think it just brings a lot of clarity to life.
[00:34:33.160] - Brandon
Yeah, it's motivating.
[00:34:34.940] - Chris
I think especially for high achievers, it's drilled into our head, but frankly, by the Gary Vaneerchucks, the Dan Martell, It's these Uber-successful people that are driving the fancy cars, have lots of commas and zeros on their networth. It's really easy as an achiever in this culture to come locked in on what I need to be and what my life needs to look like in order for me to be valuable. I know I've spent years struggling through this. There's a should. There's a should that I'm chasing out there. I should have this. I should have this balance in my bank account. I should have this in my investment portfolio. I should have this amount of sex in my marriage. I should be admired by my children in this particular way. I should, should, should, should, should. It's like we have this picture in our head based on what's being thrown at us in media and now social media. It's like, God, dude, social media has messed with our brains in some pretty profound ways. There's obviously some really awesome things that all of us have experienced about social media, too. But in part, it's made the picture so clear of what we should be.
[00:35:49.170] - Brandon
Yeah, should. Yeah.
[00:35:50.960] - Chris
Then you start to lay hold of some of these more, let's just call it... Because John elders didn't come up with this stuff. No. This was him synthesizing the things that his The mentors have told him and scripture and just all these other things. It's like when you start to lean into just these ancient truths of over the sands of time, these are the things that men have observed about themselves and about the journey man, you start to lean into this stuff. You're like, okay, there's something just fundamentally real about it that you start to recognize in yourself. Then it can, I think if you let it, start to take some of the pressure off of the shoulds. I'm just finding... For me, this was 10, 15 years ago, it was a big transformative turning point for me because I realized why I was doing some of the things I was doing or not doing those things. They said, The truth, they said the truth will set you free, right? It always does. It always does because you can't unlear it, you can't unsee it. I just found that so profound, and I think it's made me more comfortable with the idea.
[00:37:01.780] - Chris
Well, here's an example for me. Wayne and I are going to be on stage together in September. It'll be the first time that Wayne has spoken on an open stage. It's funny, Wayne and I in one of our little planning discussions, I love how honest Wayne is. If you can count on anything from Wayne, you can count on him telling the truth.
[00:37:22.120] - Brandon
At least his truth.
[00:37:23.520] - Chris
His truth. What he's thinking. He doesn't hide it. We were just talking about the format of this I talk and you say, Hey, Chris, can I just be totally honest? My fear is that this is going to be the Chris show, and I'm going to be playing second fiddle and chiming in every now and then on the topic of property management or something, because that's where he came from. I was like, well, let me actually tell you what my intention is, Wayne. You are our strategic planning guy. It's like Brandon and I, no strategic planning. We've done it in the past. But you are the one who championed it inside our company. You led us through a strategic planning process that we've adopted as a company. You are that guy. I said, my intention is that you are the star of the show. I'm just the story guy back here, adding some comic relief and adding some context to what you're saying. I'm like, but as far as I'm concerned, you're number one, I'm number two. I think five years ago, I wouldn't have even invited Wayne on stage. Because I enjoy it so much, and it really feeds me.
[00:38:36.860] - Chris
But I do feel like as in the '40s, I'm starting to recognize what you are, which is my best and my highest and best use, to use a real estate term. My highest and best use is for me now, probably, to collaborate. That's my highest... It doesn't mean I can't go have a really great time and really go kill a talk on stage because I enjoy it so much. But it probably means that moving forward and you have your own thing, my highest and best use is to find a way to bring somebody along with me and to give them a container where they can start to do that thing. I can continue to do my thing, but it's like me sharing that attention and sharing that stage is far and away the best thing that I can possibly do.
[00:39:26.750] - Brandon
I think so. I think at the bottom of all of this is idea that we've leaned into now for years, and that's that idea that leaders are force multipliers. I think that there's just these layers. When we say that often about department heads, we're talking about division level leaders, what we're asking them to do is find successors, create that pattern, that pipeline of leadership in the organization, and be developing and bringing people up behind you, because that's ultimately what is the foundation for future growth and scale. In order to do that, each one of those individuals has to learn how to be that force multiplier. You're good at X, learn how to create more people good at X. I think that when you start getting into your mid-40s and your later 40s, the opportunity is for you to be doing that same thing, but the caliber of people or the thing that you're helping people become good at and lean into becomes higher and higher state. If I think about Wayne, it's like Wayne, he's always managed a big budget multi-site properties, lots of doors. He's got the business acumen to do these things. It's why he's here.
[00:40:38.440] - Brandon
But I think also the moving parts, some of the gray that exists and how we have to do what we do, the exposure to an industry at large. He is now learning and getting exposed to a new tier of opportunities that really, for the most part, we, us, whatever, are best equipped to help him walk into that new sphere.
[00:41:00.000] - Chris
Can I get a little woo- woo here and take this down one more level?
[00:41:02.100] - Brandon
I'm going to look at the clock because I don't want to say it.
[00:41:04.400] - Chris
Before we wrap up, because I think this is an important thing, at least in my experience.
[00:41:10.260] - Brandon
We'll be the judge of that, me and all listeners.
[00:41:12.660] - Chris
I think part of what has started to change in me, that, again, is the difference maybe even five years ago. Of me, it would not necessarily have even occurred to me to share the stage, to bring Wayne in on that experience. I think this is true, and maybe somebody else will relate to this when they think about it. I think part of what has changed in me is that speaking on stage and whatever your gift or talent, that thing that you're good at and you enjoy, just insert this. For me, it's like teaching, being on stage up in front of groups. It's one of my things. That thing in our lives, professionally and personally, is such a rich source of affirmation. All through our lives, I can do this thing and people will tell me I'm awesome. Yeah. Then a part of me believes that I'm awesome, and that stokes my self-confidence and everything else. But I think for me, and I think for a lot of everybody, it's not just a male or female thing, is that we have these points of affirmation that exist in these things that we're good at. But I think underneath that is that many of us, there's a lack of self-esteem underneath there.
[00:42:30.120] - Chris
Where I don't really love that part of myself, or I'm not actually sure if I'm any good. Underneath all of it, I'm heavily dependent on other people when I get off stage or at my quarterly review or in my PnL, I'm heavily reliant on what other people say about my performance to validate whether I'm any good and I have any value. I think the thing that I've noticed inside myself is as I've learned how to love myself, which I know sounds really woo- woo, I get it. But I've recognized there's this part of me that unless other people were telling me I'm rad, there was always this question mark inside of me. And I was always moving from one achievement to the next, just hanging on everybody's words about how rad I am and likes on Facebook and people resharing my stuff or giving me accolades or praise online Or writing me reviews back when I was a state farm agent, getting those Yelp reviews and all those things. These were all external points of affirmation. I think I've seen this in myself, but I see this in our clients. This is that some people, we never, ever get to the point where we actually just feel great about ourselves absent any external validation.
[00:43:52.200] - Chris
I think that's something I've noticed in myself as I've looked at it, and I've talked about this with friends and with my wife and everything else, is that I'm starting to get to a point in my career where I don't care what other people think. I've actually started, even just in the last year, I've been doing a lot more speaking and traveling. I used to, the very first thing in my mind when I would get off stage is I'd go ask my contact, what do you think?
[00:44:18.680] - Brandon
Yeah, how did it go?
[00:44:19.380] - Chris
Because I was like, tell me I'm rad. We just move in our lives from one point to another of just waiting or chasing somebody telling us we're awesome. I think the problem with that is that it keeps us hunkered down in this stage because we don't want to give up all those points of affirmation that are so reliable. You know what I mean?
[00:44:42.060] - Brandon
Yeah, or just where you think you're obtaining your value.
[00:44:44.600] - Chris
The idea of moving from an achievement stage to being the sage and giving back and mentoring and pouring our energy and our time and potentially our resources into others to help them achieve is if we haven't gotten there, there's a massive thing we're giving up. Our ego is just clawing for affirmation. It's like, I think, Gokula talked about this. It's a common problem he sees when people go to sell their companies is all of their identity is wrapped up in their business. I'm learning this about myself. That's because it was such a reliable place to have many people tell them, you're the man. Yeah, 100 %. Giving that up, We've seen people do this. It becomes a real source of depression and anxiety of, who the frick am I now? Yeah, now what? I may have that new C9 Corvette in the driveway, and I may have all the things now because of my achievements. But inside, I don't really give a shit because I'm no longer... Nobody's telling me I'm the man anymore in these various ways.
[00:45:52.660] - Brandon
Yes, it makes sense. Yeah. I think inevitably, it's just a version of... I think to some extent, It's your experience in this. I think for others, sometimes it's the output, it's the product, it's the thing, it's the size and complexity of the problem they're solving. Because I'm thinking to myself, somebody that's a financial advisor really end up whatever data, they're not going to get the same affirmation thrills, but they are. They're just going to get it a different way. The accolade is going to come from the timeliness, the accuracy, the whatever. Name it, the shoe. We have a pair of shoes we can put on that fits, I guess, is what I'm saying. But yeah, this is interesting, man. I love this stuff. I think for all of us, the better job we can do to learn and understand what's affecting the environment around us, why is it that we see things the way we do or experience the things that we do, it just gives us such a new level of input. It changes the way that we can contribute to that process and that journey in a proactive and meaningful way. I don't know about you, but for me, any time I can be empowered with knowledge and understanding of what's happening, man, it just takes...
[00:47:03.040] - Brandon
It makes me feel more positive about my life in general. It's perspective. I feel less a victim and more like, oh, that makes sense. I can get in those waters.
[00:47:12.030] - Chris
I can get in alignment with that. Yeah, exactly. It makes sense. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:47:18.280] - Brandon
It makes sense. All right, gang. Well, thanks for hanging out with us. Hopefully, that's got something of value for you and you guys can carry into it. So cheers to the second half. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots.
[00:47:33.500] - Chris
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