[00:00:00.100] - Chris Nordyke
Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart& Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart& Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon.
[00:00:12.520] - Brandon Reece
Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours.
[00:00:21.110] - Chris Nordyke
I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose.
[00:00:24.060] - Brandon Reece
No, I, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Well, guys, we have a super interesting guest today. No, no. And you know what I've decided? I'm not going to. No, I'm going to read and you guys are going to see it on camera that I'm reading. Don't hold it against me.
[00:00:39.800] - Chris Nordyke
It's a show.
[00:00:40.440] - Brandon Reece
Today's guest, JR Litehiser, owner of Pacific Northwest Epoxy Coatings and Supplies, better known as PNW ECS. For those of you that are watching video, it's not going to take you long to understand that not only is JR an awesome business owner, obviously somebody that's supporting the the blue-collar industries at large, but he has a very unique story. J.R.'s been a high school teacher, police officer, a decorative concrete contractor, hence the connection to us. And in 2008, right as he was starting a construction materials distribution business, a chemical explosion literally left him with burns over 80% of his body. He spent 8 weeks in a coma, 8 months in the hospital, and ended up losing his right hand. He built his company anyway, literally from a hospital bed with a laptop, a phone, making cold calls. First year, about $60 grand in sales. Today, PNW ECS has 2 locations, more than a dozen employees, and is closing in on $6.5 million a year in revenue. Just from our behind-the-scenes conversations with you two, has a very clear vision for where he's going in the future, and we'll be breaking that down with you, obviously, as part of your time with us.
[00:01:48.190] - Brandon Reece
So along the way, he raised a son as a single dad, rebuilt his life with his high school sweetheart, and now speaks to burn survivors, wounded warriors and first responders about what it takes to keep moving forward. And JR, welcome, man, to the show.
[00:02:02.140] - JR Litehiser
Thank you, gentlemen. I'm glad to be here. Appreciate you having me.
[00:02:05.120] - Brandon Reece
We are super pumped. I'm going to selfishly say I have wanted to hear from you firsthand the story.
[00:02:12.990] - JR Litehiser
I'm glad to share with you. It happened on May 23rd, 2008, just as I was starting the decorative distribution or materials distribution company, as you had mentioned. I got called in to take a look at a decorative concrete floor that a contractor had done maybe a subpar job on the homeowner wanted a factory rep to go take a look at. So I went to as a representative for the manufacturer who I was repping at the time for the material distribution business, and the floor was not in horrible shape but did need some help. I was using a solvinated sealer to finish the decorative concrete floor. Had done my due diligence, so I had thunk. I'm not my first rodeo, right? So pilot lights off on the furnace and water heater, positive pressure cross ventilation from two fans in opposing sides of the house for air exchange, and just the right mixture of fumes and oxygen. Found an ignition. I often joke I was fat at the time and shouldn't have been wearing corduroy, or maybe shouldn't have picked the wrong time for a smoke break, but neither of those are true. It was just really a freak accident.
[00:03:11.410] - JR Litehiser
I mean, 2 private forensic investigators, one for the insurance company, one for my homeowner's insurance company, my construction business's insurance company, Portland Fire, and Portland Police Bureau arson investigator, nobody could determine the source of the cause.
[00:03:25.610] - Chris Nordyke
Wow.
[00:03:26.160] - JR Litehiser
So again, fat kid, corduroy just seems to make the best sense. I had the wherewithal—
[00:03:31.940] - Brandon Reece
Is that technical jargon?
[00:03:33.480] - Chris Nordyke
You've all been warned, those of you wearing corduroy on the job.
[00:03:37.000] - JR Litehiser
That's right. Decorative concrete guys working in sealer, no corduroy. Make that clear. But no, it was— there was a whoosh and a bang, and then I got really hot. I at least had the wherewithal to get out of the house, summon help, stop, drop, and pass out. That's as far as I got down my checklist of things to do. Whereas if I were thinking clearer or smarter, I would have ran into a bathroom, turned on a shower, and put myself out. I hadn't even any idea that I was on fire. I didn't see the flames. I just felt the burn. So, and then the only memory I have after the stop, drop, and pass out was on the way to the hospital, one of my boots was jettisoned from the ambulance because it was still on fire. But other than that, I woke up 2 months later.
[00:04:16.710] - Brandon Reece
Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So, and you were in a basement?
[00:04:20.880] - JR Litehiser
I was.
[00:04:21.720] - Brandon Reece
So, I mean, getting out wasn't a— I mean, you didn't necessarily have several options.
[00:04:25.930] - JR Litehiser
No, there was one way in, one way out for the stairs.
[00:04:28.430] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:04:28.750] - Brandon Reece
And was this like explosion goes off, it's out, or did it— was the house on fire then at this point?
[00:04:34.200] - JR Litehiser
No, I like to say fortunately I was the only thing that burned because it was a whoosh-bang and it was out for as far as the house was concerned. But my clothes were more or less saturated in solvent from putting sealers down through a pump sprayer. So it was atomized, made a great vapor cloud that I was swimming in more or less.
[00:04:51.820] - Brandon Reece
When it ignited, essentially. Unbelievable. So 2 months in the hospital, you're in an intentional coma for the heat. Healing process, I'm assuming.
[00:05:01.820] - JR Litehiser
Yes.
[00:05:02.240] - Brandon Reece
You wake up. What is happening in your mind?
[00:05:04.510] - Chris Nordyke
What's that like?
[00:05:05.130] - JR Litehiser
It was horrible. Really scary. I was pretty certain I was alive. Wasn't quite sure. Had a lot of horrible dreams, nightmares. I don't know what was drug-induced, pain-induced. I mean, I was in and out of consciousness those first couple of weeks coming out of the coma. It was slow. I had waking dreams as well. Like, there were parts of my lower extremities that I thought had been amputated and replaced by somebody else of a different race because this color was different. It was just my bandages were soaked in blood.
[00:05:32.270] - Brandon Reece
blood.
[00:05:32.990] - JR Litehiser
I couldn't put that together. I didn't have the wherewithal or clarity at the time. Just, just a lot of pain and a lot of fever dreams.
[00:05:39.830] - Brandon Reece
So who's talking to you? Like, who's kind of bringing you back to consciousness?
[00:05:44.800] - JR Litehiser
Nurses. Oh my God, the nurses at the burn center, at the Oregon Burn Center at Emmanuel Hospital, I owe my life to. I could get misty. Horrible. Great guys having me cry 5 minutes into a podcast.
[00:05:55.660] - Brandon Reece
That's our job, brother. Welcome to the show.
[00:05:59.360] - JR Litehiser
You're better than Springer. No, my God, the nurses there, the intensive care nurses at the burn center, those people are angels on earth. I don't know how— having been in law enforcement, I've seen horrible things, but it happens in instances, occasional calls. They're in the thick of horrible all day long with people crying and screaming in pain, children, women. I wouldn't work there. I didn't like residing there. It was awful. But no, they— I mean, they were the ones that were talking to me. The doctors and their team of college students would be trotted through too. They were more talking at me or using me as show and tell. But the nurses on the day-to-day, I mean, coming up with ways to communicate, squeezing fingers or nodding or blinking.
[00:06:40.630] - Brandon Reece
Wow.
[00:06:40.880] - JR Litehiser
Just so that we can have communication again. That was huge. Just having them explain to me everything that was going on because I was hooked up to a lot of equipment and machines and apparatuses and what have you. And some of the changes that they would have to do, whether it be a breathing tube or a bathroom tube or something like that. They were uncomfortable and painful, but to have them talk me through it and drug me up, get the work done quickly and as gently as they could, and then, you know, be there for me afterwards. Those folks put in their time and really I owe my life to them.
[00:07:12.330] - Brandon Reece
Unbelievable. You know, we— I kind of checked for those of us that maybe are getting some warning signs here. So checked with you before we recorded, obviously, and wanted to know how open you were to walking through this story and letting us kind of do all the Q&A that our little hearts desire. And we're thankful for that, man. I just— this, uh, I can't even— in my mind, I'm having a very difficult time seeing how you're literally starting something at that point when this accident happens. You are just spinning up your business. You then get hit with something that, I mean, would crush the spirit of most people, let alone someone that's trying to get a business started. And we're going to, as part of our conversation, talk about this very successful and growing business that you did get out of the launch ramp after this accident, where's your head? Like, in this 8 months of healing, like, talk us through what was going on inside your mind. What were you fighting?
[00:08:06.890] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, the good attitude you see now, I did not have it then. It took time to develop. It didn't happen to me when I was in the hospital. And then coming home was even more so depressing because I got to watch the disintegration of my little nuclear family coming apart. My spouse at the time— if you think of it in terms of trauma, fight or flight or freeze, right? Those are your 3 choices when something happens, she was flighty, and that's okay. I wish I had known that before, but you don't get to test these things out necessarily when you're dating. That was hard. But really, one of the things that helped to turn around the greatest for me was— and one of the kindest things my ex ever did for me was took me to a group in Central Oregon. At the time, it was called the Central Oregon Resources for Independent Living, CORIL. It's now been rebranded as Ability Tree, but it was a nonprofit organization that helped folks with physical and developmental disabilities get done as much independent living as they can acquire. And so, I got to go to a group meeting there, and I was sitting in a room with a dirt bike pro that broke his neck and couldn't ride anymore.
[00:09:09.710] - JR Litehiser
He was in a huff-and-puff chair. I was sitting with a NASA scientist who had a stroke and couldn't do basic math anymore. I was sitting with a woman who was leading the group who had all kinds of degenerative issues, Parkinson's, but she showed up for these people. You know, I went in there feeling really bad about myself and then left feeling even worse because if these folks can get through what they're going through, fuck is my excuse?
[00:09:34.050] - Brandon Reece
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:35.560] - JR Litehiser
Wow.
[00:09:35.960] - Brandon Reece
And context, right?
[00:09:37.190] - JR Litehiser
Perspective. Yeah.
[00:09:38.550] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:09:38.920] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:09:39.110] - JR Litehiser
And so honestly, really, my work started again, not necessarily in distribution, even though I was doing it, but after several months of being a customer, client, or user of this resource in our community, I went to work for them and started doing the same. I was able to visit more people that were out in the community that couldn't come to the resource center because the disabilities were too severe. And so I went out into the field and met with them and said, hey, if I can get in the car and get there, so can you.
[00:10:05.860] - Brandon Reece
Nice.
[00:10:06.240] - JR Litehiser
You got to kind of guilt people into treatment, so to speak, or at least show them that there is a way to get to the resources that they need.
[00:10:12.460] - Chris Nordyke
So you kind of became a social worker in effect, yeah?
[00:10:14.960] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, more or less, I suppose. I'd like to think of it as kind of like a patient advocate.
[00:10:19.700] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:10:20.560] - JR Litehiser
One of the things that I'd learned in the burn center too is that nobody will advocate for you on your behalf like you can advocate for advocate yourself. for yourself. And to get what I needed, I needed to get loud. And, you know, never brash or demanding, or hopefully not that way. But no, I needed to speak up to get what I needed. Well, these people too needed the permission to ask for what they needed and to be shown how to get what they need.
[00:10:44.340] - Brandon Reece
Yeah. So interesting. Okay, I'm curious. During that 8-month timeframe, you're healing, you start to— sounds like right after that, basically once they allow you to leave the building, you start So you start volunteering, giving some time back and energy. What's going on with the business then at that time?
[00:11:00.140] - JR Litehiser
It was a slow, slow start to the business because really it was getting worked in, in between doctor visits and hospital appointments and charitable work with this nonprofit I was doing. So, you know, $60,000 in a year doesn't sound like a lot, but I was really, you know, that was in a couple of hours a week that I was able to dedicate to the business because really the focus was on shoring up my housing. Where was I going to live? And being a no-income household now with my separation and I was trying to shore up my medical care and needs because, I mean, while I was in hospital, the 8 months that I was there, I think I had something like 40-plus reconstructive surgeries. Well, since having left the hospital, I had like another third.
[00:11:41.670] - Chris Nordyke
Wow.
[00:11:41.810] - JR Litehiser
So, I mean, I was constantly in and out of different hospitals getting skin grafting done, scar revision surgeries, organs removed, bones shored up or trimmed off on my arm, just a bunch of— I was busy. So hence the low numbers. But as my recovery physically progressed, So did my attention to the business and time commitment.
[00:12:02.180] - Brandon Reece
Well, how long after that 8 months, like, what was happening? How long did it take you to get to a place where you felt like you were able to focus your attention really on building the business?
[00:12:12.220] - JR Litehiser
I still have problems focusing. Yeah, right. So, you know, it's been a journey, not to sound cliché or anything, but it's really been a lot of new levels, new devils. Every time we get 2 steps ahead, we find something that knocks us back a peg and we got to And plan, adjust, make changes, and then charge forward again. So I'm a big fan of the expression fail forward. I screw stuff up every day, but so long as we learn from it and get better, that's okay.
[00:12:38.620] - Brandon Reece
I've got so many questions, Chris. Like, I just want to make sure that I'm not taking up all the air. So, okay, I think it would be helpful. So obviously you serve the, essentially the concrete trades, but it's potentially broader than that. So give us the lay of the land. What, what is PNW ECS? Kind of give us more of the formal structure. What motivated you to go that direction? Kind of walk us through the development of the company.
[00:13:02.340] - JR Litehiser
Well, there's a horrible expression, those that can do, those that can't teach. And I couldn't do anymore. So I fell back on my skill sets I acquired as an educator and mentality of a lifelong learner. And I wanted to bring that to contractors because there was really a lot of underrepresentation from manufacturers in effectively training contractors how to use their products or services effectively. You know, there's YouTube University, but that only gets you so far. Yeah, I'm sure like you guys or other contractors, you know, we like to touch, feel, and do things with our hands.
[00:13:33.440] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:13:33.790] - JR Litehiser
You know, if you watch it on a screen, that's cute, but that doesn't help me when I'm, you know, in the field or coming up against something that, you know, wasn't on the video. So I wanted to provide a place for contractors to have a stress-free learning environment. I often tell them, look, if you're going to screw something up, do it here and on my dime, not out in the field on your job. And then 2, it's also a great marketing piece to get people involved with the very materials that we're selling. So, the more that we could up their confidence in what we had to provide for them to utilize in the field, the more they would in turn purchase to use for their work.
[00:14:05.460] - Brandon Reece
Yeah. It's interesting today, we batch record, so we'll tend to have a couple episodes in a single day. And we were having a conversation with one of our strategic partners, Backbone CFO. They're a fractional CFO service provider. And we were just talking about how organizations are starting to understand better this idea of creating like an ecosystem, like a captivated audience.
[00:14:28.460] - Chris Nordyke
Right.
[00:14:28.830] - Brandon Reece
And understanding that, like, you're building that relationship and trust. And then in turn, of course, they just buy from people they like doing business with, that they have relationship with, you know? So it sounds like you just adopted that pretty early on in the development of the company.
[00:14:41.560] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, I think it's the best way to retain a customer is to demonstrate your expertise in a subject or field and then to be available to serve them. So if they can trust you as a resource and they know you've got what they need, why wouldn't they come back? Yeah.
[00:14:56.010] - Brandon Reece
So teacher, police officer, entrepreneur, pull the things in together for me. So teacher, police officer, I would definitely poke the bear on this, but you have kind of a certain approach to why and what you're doing. I just would love to hear how those things tie together and influence you now.
[00:15:12.040] - JR Litehiser
Well, so again, many, many years ago and back in the day, and like I told you at lunch, and I won't bore your podcasters with it either, but with religion or faith, But I was a product of a Jesuit upbringing in a Catholic school called St. Ignatius College Preparatory in San Francisco. I had only gone to them after spending all of my education up to that in public school. And I resisted my freshman year. It was a very big culture shock for me, and they were very stringent with regards to mindfulness as a community member at the school itself, attention to your studies, and then involvement in your community. And sophomore, junior, senior year, man, I was all in. I took to that and found a community, and it just feels like home now. And so I wanted to emulate that in whatever profession I had chosen. So Jesuits are big on service. Well, I wanted to be of service to my community. The best ways I could think to do that would be through education, like I had just learned through the St. Ignatius and Gonzaga University, or in law enforcement. I'd always been fascinated because law enforcement— you mentioned social work— they're social work with a badge and a gun.
[00:16:14.540] - JR Litehiser
You know, you're just prepared to deal with the horrible, but you're really out there helping people, you know, in their worst and lowest moments.
[00:16:20.060] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:16:20.080] - JR Litehiser
And both of those appealed to me because of the upbringing I had had. with the Catholic Church. But after having been involved in 3 shootings, 2 car crashes, and more fistfights than I could count, I succumbed to familial pressure to get out of the business because it was dangerous. Who knew? The irony I enjoy is I was a much better gunfighter than I was a contractor because I survived that just fine. But 2 years into contracting, I set myself off like a Roman candle, you know, and now I look like a struck match. Whereas if I was still a gunslinger, I'd probably be in far better shape. But the funny story, I was a substitute field training officer for a day with a guy that I didn't think had any business being in law enforcement. The reason he didn't have any business being in law enforcement is he came from a family of means that owned a big company in the jurisdiction where we were working. And I asked him one night, I'm like, why are you doing this? He's like, well, I want to serve my community. I'm like, you got more money than God.
[00:17:14.560] - JR Litehiser
You want to catch a bullet to serve your community? He quit the next day. Oh, then we were in a bar fight. Then he quit the next day. But similarly, my transition into private industry, we still have, I think, a real strong community component or service component, not just to the contractor community to serve, but the areas that we reside, our businesses reside in as well. So you don't have to catch a bullet to be of service. And so getting into the education piece with the contractors and then serving the contractor community through a distribution business is still, to me, kind of the same. thing in my mind. We're still serving a community that has a need that isn't filled by a lot of people.
[00:17:54.470] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, it's all the people business.
[00:17:56.380] - JR Litehiser
Yeah.
[00:17:56.700] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, it's still— yeah, exactly. You know, one of the things that Chris used early on when we were building companies together is he really was keyed in on— not talking for you, but he was really keyed in on Ritz-Carlton. He actually negotiated it as part of the— when I was trying to hire him full-time. And so one of the languages that he wanted, encouraged us to adopt early was this idea that we're a restoration company or a hospitality company that happens to do restoration, right? And it's funny, it's like that was 2014 maybe or something at the time when we were having that dialogue originally. And, you know, if anything, it's only ramped up and become more and more true. And so it's interesting because like just kind of hearing your story and your approach, I think, I think a lot of people are going, oh man, that's great. That's so refreshing. But I think there's just a reality that, like, I think that's the way all of us should technically be looking at leading our companies.
[00:18:52.540] - Chris Nordyke
Leading with the value.
[00:18:53.500] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, absolutely. No, I think so. Servant leadership is what the Jesuits call it. I've heard it called that in military parlance and law enforcement as well.
[00:19:02.320] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:19:02.650] - JR Litehiser
And that, I mean, the best thing that you can do to aid in your community is to serve it. You don't tell them what to do or how to do it. You're just there for them and you pitch in words. Yeah.
[00:19:10.810] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, it's big.
[00:19:12.130] - JR Litehiser
But I got a question now, if that's okay for Chris. Is Ritz the one where whatever the problem is, you fix it? If it costs less than $500, just get it done. If it costs more than that, talk to your manager or something?
[00:19:23.270] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah, so it's— so it extends beyond that, which is the really fascinating part. So Ritz has this empowerment model where they allow all of their 50,000 employees, whether they're a day porter sweeping in the lobby or they're a general manager of a hotel, they can spend up to $2,000 per customer.
[00:19:38.330] - JR Litehiser
Wow.
[00:19:38.970] - Chris Nordyke
Not just to recover a bad situation, But to enhance the guest experience.
[00:19:43.450] - Brandon Reece
That's probably the most important element.
[00:19:45.750] - Chris Nordyke
That is the most important, because that's the big misconception that Ritz-Carlton runs into, because they now have the Ritz-Carlton Leadership Institute. They train companies all around the world, is people think it's just resolution. Like, hey, how do we make this person not be pissed off and leave us a 2-star TripAdvisor review? But it's actually, they proactively want their ladies and gentlemen— they refer to it as ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen, which is very interesting. It's like customers are on par with our employees, our whole team, right?
[00:20:12.130] - Brandon Reece
It's unique. That is a unique—
[00:20:13.790] - Chris Nordyke
It's so unique, and there's no supervisor approval. It just empowers them to make that decision on the spot, in the moment. They hear something, they see something, they can act immediately and grab company resources as needed. It's inspiring.
[00:20:29.780] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, I would love to do something like that. What do they call it? First-person resolution? Where if somebody comes to one of our staff that has an issue, Well, take care of the person. Yeah, let's make sure that they get what they need to get done, what needs to get done. Yeah, because every time they're down or they have to make another trip to another store to get something they're short of or what have you, oh yeah, it costs money.
[00:20:49.600] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, that's right.
[00:20:50.570] - JR Litehiser
Very much.
[00:20:51.350] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, I can't remember. I think, gosh, dude, I don't know where we heard this story, but it was basically the example was somebody ordered something, wanted like a, some specific type of drink. They didn't have it. And so the employee went to their supervisor and said, hey, this particular client or patron would like this specific thing and we don't have it. And so that manager, that leader, then took it upon themselves to drive next door, pick up this soft drink that they didn't have, you know, in stock or whatever, bring it back, give it to their team member to then be able to provide to their client. I'm just thinking, it sounds so silly, right? But you're talking about $1.25 and 15 minutes of your time. Imagine the stage that that set, not only for the patron, not only for the guest that's there, but imagine that team member watching their direct line supervisor, what they're willing to do to live out that mission of, we're a hospitality company that happens to do coatings, happens to do restoration. I just think it's profound.
[00:21:51.580] - Chris Nordyke
It's just this mindset. And I hear this in you, and we were downstairs at the taco joint having lunch together before this. It seems to fit with how you look at the business too. It moves beyond the profitability of any one single transaction, right? And it's looking at the long-term relationship, right? How do I feed that long-term relationship? It costs me a little bit of my margin, or maybe even all of my margin on this Sometimes we backpedal.
[00:22:14.000] - JR Litehiser
Absolutely. Yeah. We've had an incident like that recently where— We're talking about a lot of lofty aspirations, how we like to view and treat our customers. I want to preface it all by saying we're not perfect and we screw up all the time. But even though we're not perfect and we screw up all the time, we want to own it. We believe big time in accountability. And then too, we want to make things right for our customers. So like we've had an instance recently where a customer comes and picks up a catalyzed material, which is 2 or 3 component material and mix A and B together and it makes your floor. Well, they got 2 part A's instead of an A and a B and got out to their job, which was far away, and that's gonna cause them delay in time. And so, so we're, we're out there, discounts, free material, where can we meet you and deliver it? Let's get this right. Because the, like you had mentioned, the relationship is more the focus.
[00:22:58.760] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:22:59.000] - JR Litehiser
The long term. You know, I oftentimes think of not just the business itself, but even all of the customers in the business is kind of Like a portfolio, and you want to have it be diversified. And you want to, you know, not every customer is going to be a winner, but if you treat them all well and the same, you're going to win with others where you might be giving up some with others. And it's so long as everything's in the red, red or black? Black.
[00:23:21.000] - Brandon Reece
Black. Black.
[00:23:21.500] - JR Litehiser
Thank you, black. Sorry, red is what we're drowning in. Black is what we're hoping for. It comes out in the wash. And we want to make certain that people have a positive experience.
[00:23:32.660] - Brandon Reece
So one of the things that stood out to us obviously is our— who made the introduction. Mutual, very respected friend and colleague introduced the two of us. You've been working now with Collin for some time, and really at some point during the last several years, you hit a point where you decided it's time to become an owner, a full-blown owner of the business and begin working on these strategic initiatives. How long ago was that and what was the catalyst? Like, what did you hit finally that was like, okay, it's time to get serious about this vision?
[00:24:02.830] - JR Litehiser
Absolutely. You know, for the longest time, I had done a really good job in creating myself a job, and that was cute and it paid the bills. But if we wanted to make something that was going to impact our community and change the lives of a lot of individuals, I needed a team. And so really, it was that mindset from solopreneur to business leader. I even hate saying that, gag a little when I say that out loud. I don't think of myself like that, but trying to make that mindset, knowing that I would have to grow a team if we were going to make the kind of impact I think this company could. And so So started growing the team, started with what was easiest and in reach, which were family members. And then we branched out to colleagues and contractor clients of ours. And then now we're on the World Wide Web. We're interviewing strangers.
[00:24:44.820] - Chris Nordyke
The World Wide Web.
[00:24:45.600] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, right. I know. The interweb.
[00:24:47.460] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, that's right. Little, what is it? Gas Monkey Garage, the interwebs.
[00:24:52.670] - Chris Nordyke
That's funny.
[00:24:53.390] - JR Litehiser
I'm a bit of a Luddite. The older I get, the more I abhor technology, but it's such a wonderful tool. We have to use it. But yeah, so now we're opening ourselves up to the world at large. Because there's all kinds of great talent in there. Why won't we wanna check it out?
[00:25:07.020] - Chris Nordyke
Let's pause, hang here for a minute, because there's so many people that listen and so many blue-collar businesses that are built from a foundation of family.
[00:25:13.640] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:25:14.360] - Chris Nordyke
Talk a little bit about your experiences. You started hiring family. What were some of the challenges you faced? What were some of the advantages?
[00:25:20.500] - Brandon Reece
The look on your face already.
[00:25:22.240] - JR Litehiser
I know, right? Did everybody see this? This is me not wanting to talk about it.
[00:25:26.140] - Chris Nordyke
Pros, cons, right? But what was the experience there? What'd you learn?
[00:25:29.510] - JR Litehiser
Wow, you're gonna get me into so much trouble. No, I'm just kidding. What was nice about family is because there's already a layer of built-in trust. You know, they're not gonna rob or steal from you. You know, they're not gonna take from the business. Even though my son, my stepson who had started with me, I think was employee number 1. We used to say all the time, boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I poop on company time. But other than that, he was trustworthy, showed up every day and worked really hard. He just had funny quips like that.
[00:26:01.410] - Brandon Reece
Oh.
[00:26:01.570] - JR Litehiser
And then a stepdaughter as well, had worked for me and my wife for a number of years, grew with the business from $1 million to where we're at now. And so, the built-in trust, people you love and like to hang out with on a daily basis, that was cool. But it gets stressful. Lines get blurred. Keeping home and work or life separate got difficult, and being too much in work and not in family was hard. And boy, we struggled with that too.
[00:26:28.070] - Brandon Reece
Still are.
[00:26:29.050] - JR Litehiser
But we're working through it. You combat the hiring family by making new family, hiring other employees or folks from outside your gene pool.
[00:26:37.530] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:26:38.750] - JR Litehiser
Which is absolutely necessary to grow. And so, it's funny, if we talk about different stages in businesses or different levels, new devils kind of thing, I figure where we're at now is like PNW ECS 3.0. 1.0 was me cold calling, 1 or 2 employees, little warehouse, couple occasional trainings, some sales. Yay. PNW 2.0 was like, let's Grow the team. Let's get some people on here with different skill sets or different expertises that can broaden the market that we serve, or the clientele that we serve, the things that we sell. And so we started started with contractor colleagues that were in the field or had product knowledge looking for work, and then started hiring reps that worked in like industries from other companies. And that's where we're at now. And then of course now we're going to staffing agencies and job posts like Indeed and LinkedIn and and interviewing people. We're pulling it off the street to see what sort of talent we can acquire, if there are people out there that have crazy that match our crazy. So we're in 3.0 right now, and I imagine 4.0 will be a lot less me, much more leadership team development, and more jurisdictions, more employees.
[00:27:46.080] - Brandon Reece
Further down the line. Yeah. You know, we were talking a little bit downstairs, and you were just kind of talking about some of the— what has been seen as kind of the harder things for you to do personally for this transition. What were those?
[00:27:58.580] - JR Litehiser
What's 2, 3 things that you felt like you're wrestling the most right now, giving up I'm told there's an expression called founder's syndrome, which I wouldn't know what that means other than, it's my baby, don't take my baby.
[00:28:11.150] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:28:11.650] - JR Litehiser
I can't let go. So I don't know if that's a command and control issue, comfortable entrusting other people with things that I thought I did well, and then come to learn that you get good people in good positions and they do better than you did. That's been hurtful. No, I'm just kidding. And I apologize, the ADHD is kicking in hard. What was the question again?
[00:28:32.470] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, just that, like those 2, 3 things really that you were communicating.
[00:28:36.260] - JR Litehiser
Letting go.
[00:28:36.660] - Brandon Reece
Yeah. I gotta let go.
[00:28:38.510] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:28:38.890] - JR Litehiser
And as hard as it is to do, the result cannot be argued.
[00:28:42.680] - Brandon Reece
Explain that. What do you mean?
[00:28:44.130] - JR Litehiser
We had a retreat at the end of July, beginning of August, where we got our core leadership team together over a weekend to talk about what does this company need to do to propel itself in the next direction. And everybody took ownership of their job. what they wanna do, how they can help the company grow. And we work their way around the table and they get to me and it sounds like I've been fired, 'cause everything that I used to do, they're all gonna do. What am I gonna do? You know, I have no job anymore. And that's the current struggle I'm in. But the bright side is, and sad at the same time, is everything is running so great without me.
[00:29:17.030] - Chris Nordyke
Mm.
[00:29:17.640] - JR Litehiser
You know, so, but no, I still get input and I do show up every day. But the team that I've been able to build, if I got one superpower, that's picking good people, 'cause the crew that we have together right now, I think, is going to be foundational in propelling us into the— into PNW 4.0. Absolutely.
[00:29:34.880] - Chris Nordyke
So how would you have described your leadership style, like in the 1.0 or 2.0? And where do you see that kind of trending now?
[00:29:43.140] - JR Litehiser
I hate to admit it, but probably the most apt description would be like an anxiety-ridden, angry toddler, something like that.
[00:29:50.930] - Brandon Reece
That's probably the most honest self-assessment I've heard in a long time.
[00:29:54.650] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, no shit. I am painfully self-aware, which sucks because I can call myself out on my own BS. And that is the sense impression I would've had if I had to watch me work, with an angry toddler. And now, you know, I'm trying to reframe in my brain what it is that I do. And I was told at this retreat that we were on, I've got 3 jobs. And then I've come up with a new way to think about it. So the 3 jobs are, one is I get to drive the vision and sell the dream. I'm gonna develop the culture and I'm gonna work on capitalization. I get to— job number 2 is I get to Recruit, retain, train, promote, hire, and fire folk. That's number 2. Number 3 is I get to be hopelessly or violently optimistic. That's my next job. So leaving the chair of being the doer that would serve the contractors, the way I frame it in my brain now is I serve the team that serves our team.
[00:30:41.220] - Chris Nordyke
Hmm.
[00:30:42.000] - JR Litehiser
And so I've gotta take care of my people, and I am trying really hard to learn best what is it that I need to do that helps them propel this company to the next level. And so, And that service mindset on, it's just a different group of people I'm serving now. And I've got to trust that they'll serve our customers, and I have no doubt they will.
[00:31:00.950] - Chris Nordyke
That's pretty damn clear for somebody who's kind of like, I don't know what I'm doing these days.
[00:31:06.370] - JR Litehiser
Well, so that sounds neat, right? I serve the people, but what does that mean?
[00:31:10.370] - Brandon Reece
What do I do?
[00:31:11.350] - JR Litehiser
What does that look like? I don't know anymore.
[00:31:14.430] - Brandon Reece
Tell me, Jared, do you wrestle with this? So one of the things that I— and again, we're all in some current phase of this, really, if we're honest. Early on, I just wrestled with the how long it took to experience the fruit of the effort, the farther up the food chain you went, right? So it's like you start getting to a point now where the things that Chris and I are working on, like, if we're honest, like sometimes it takes 6 months, a year and a half for us to see the thing and to be brutally transparent. Like it didn't feel like we knew where we were going that whole time either. Like, and we're just kind of get to the end. We're like, man, thank God we didn't completely shift because it did end up going where we thought it might go.
[00:31:53.000] - JR Litehiser
Right.
[00:31:53.340] - Brandon Reece
But what's that for you?
[00:31:54.370] - JR Litehiser
No, that's an excellent way to describe the problems I'm having now. You know, Gen Xer brought up on 30-minute sitcom shows, I want problems solved in 30 minutes or less. You know, I have that short of an attention span. I like the quick sale. I like the quick problem solving for a contractor. I like the instant dopamine hit, like I did a good job.
[00:32:12.020] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:32:12.560] - JR Litehiser
Now it's 6-month, 1-year, 3, 5-year horizons that I have to plan for. And I'm spinning in my chair going, God, I hope this works.
[00:32:20.090] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:32:20.340] - JR Litehiser
You know?
[00:32:20.990] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:32:21.620] - JR Litehiser
I think this is a good idea. So no, that's a great way to describe it. I mean, You just don't get the instant gratification of knowing that what you're doing is moving the needle. You just have to have faith in the plan. But what is nice too about having these longer-term visions is that just because you're going down this one path or you've got this one plan or initiative you're doing doesn't mean you can't adjust, change, pivot if you need to. But yeah, the waiting for the payoff, that's tough.
[00:32:47.120] - Brandon Reece
Yeah. What are you doing to kind of keep motivated while you're in one of those runs where it's hard to see the fruit of what you're putting the time on?
[00:32:55.610] - JR Litehiser
I don't know. I don't know yet. A lot of vices, bad habits, cursing a lot. No, I haven't come up with a good system yet. And if you guys have any suggestions, I am all ears. But what I'm trying to do is do the things that I know make me happy. I spend time with my dog. I'm gonna get out in the field. I'm gonna hunt. I'm gonna coach up my sales team. I'm gonna interact with some of my favorite customers. I'm gonna spend time with my wife and daughter while I've got them. I try to do the things that I know are happy feelings. Because most of this stuff, when you get into the slog or the grind at work and you're spinning your wheels or you're working hard on something, you don't know if it's going to be fruitful or whatever. You got to get your good feels somewhere. So get your good feels somewhere.
[00:33:37.560] - Chris Nordyke
That's a pretty great answer, actually.
[00:33:39.720] - Brandon Reece
Yeah. I was like, I think that's the first time I've heard somebody basically say, use these other motivators, essentially is what I'm hearing you say, and leverage that payoff to the stuff that doesn't give in That's what I've come up with so far, and it seems to be working.
[00:33:57.010] - JR Litehiser
I don't know. I hope it keeps working.
[00:33:59.110] - Brandon Reece
And I don't know if it's super obvious. I mean, we're learning this about you just as we continue to have conversations outside of the show. Working hard, just to be clear to the audience, like working hard is not a problem for you. So, so you making the decision that I'm going to leverage time with my family, I'm going to leverage time hunting, I'm going to do these things to get some instant feedback. Like, how did that happen? Because If you were left to your own demise, I'm assuming big hours are not a problem.
[00:34:25.940] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, I'd be working all the time. You really, it's, I call it thought work. We've all got an internal monologue running all of the time, and I don't know about yours, but mine tells me all the time, you suck, work harder, get after it, you're not doing enough. I don't know where that came from or why, but it's just like an, I've got this drive, need to be forward motion at 100 miles an hour all the time. But that's just what's going on between my ears. You know what, I've got some control over that too. And you really gotta train your brain to either reframe what it is that you're working on or working through, or look for things outside of the work that benefit the mental health. Because you're right, I'd work nonstop. In fact, that was a large problem for a lot of time. I would work 16 hours a day, 6 days a week, and that doesn't make for good family time or good friend time or good hunting time or dog time, which are equally as, or more so important.
[00:35:17.410] - Chris Nordyke
Yes.
[00:35:17.750] - JR Litehiser
Because if you're not doing well upstairs or if you're not taking care of yourself physically, how are you going to serve your team? How are you going to serve your customers? You know, so not to be selfish, but you really got to carve that stuff out for yourself.
[00:35:29.070] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:35:29.780] - Brandon Reece
Yeah. I think, you know, that kind of— it reminds me sometimes of, you know, you and I have talked about this. We've heard feedback from, you know, mental health specialists and things about this idea of you can't, you know, pour anything from an empty cup, right? So this idea of like, you've got to be doing something to refill that battery pack. Otherwise, you're not able to really give anybody anything. So you might be showing up, but you may not be showing up.
[00:35:53.320] - JR Litehiser
Right. And I don't want to sound like I've got this all figured out or I'm saying smart and pithy things because I've lived this experience. No, I am just figuring this stuff out now. I mean, I'm 51, 51, and I feel like I'm just now figuring stuff out, which is sad, but seems to be going in the right direction.
[00:36:12.060] - Chris Nordyke
How much did the injury, the experience you had, how much did that change your mindset in terms of the value of your time, the brevity of life? Like, is any of that transformational or?
[00:36:21.840] - JR Litehiser
The one thing that I really value from the experience of having been set on fire is a clear perspective that most things that are happening to me on my day-to-day aren't bad. I will often be caught being said or saying, nobody's shooting at me and I'm not on fire. How bad can it be?
[00:36:36.700] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:36:37.250] - JR Litehiser
You know, and that annoys a lot of people that haven't been shot at or set on fire, but it helps me a lot. You know, it's not— yeah, things are not that bad. We're not curing cancer. You know, nobody's life is in the balance. You know, we have to show up, do a good job, and serve our people. It's not hard.
[00:36:52.730] - Brandon Reece
You know, it's interesting, dude. Like, there's several things that my wife has said over the years that I just, for whatever reason in the moment, like grabbed onto them, and now they're like a go-to. So there's 2 sayings. I'm gonna brain fart one of them, but basically one of the ideas— she'll— she asked our kids this all the time, like, is this nuclear warfare or burnt toast? Like, we got to do some context setting here before we all jump into bed of sorrows together, you know what I mean? I just love that, like, just Stopping somebody. And even, you know how kids are in the moment, like, it's very difficult to pull them out of whatever headspace. Hell, it's hard for me as an adult, right?
[00:37:24.640] - JR Litehiser
Oh yeah.
[00:37:25.120] - Brandon Reece
The other thing that she was just careful of, and this is— I'm not going to tell her story, but when she was young, very traumatic experience at home with family. Very sad. Reason to be sad. Bonafide. Goes to school within this time frame, not too long after this accident, and sees a girl just totally distraught over the loss of her dog. And what she was kind of referring to in the moment was her understanding of sadness and sorrow as a context of that person's lived experience.
[00:37:51.980] - JR Litehiser
Sure.
[00:37:52.400] - Brandon Reece
And so whatever it is that she's dealt with versus me, that's just as hard for her based on her life. I can't relate it to what we've been through in our family, whatever, right?
[00:38:00.920] - JR Litehiser
Right.
[00:38:01.220] - Brandon Reece
And I'm thinking about that a little bit in context with what you're sharing. Like, you have had a lived experience that has created a very different threshold for pain and context than probably the average person. But I think there's also this responsibility as a leader, just like we have leadership experiences or business growth and trials experience. We have these life experiences, some more traumatic than others, that do kind of reorient our vision for what's feasible, what's realistic, this context I'm talking about. So when you get— all that to say, when you get feedback from a downline person who hasn't been shot at and they weren't set on fire, but you do have this lived experience. That is meaningful in the sense that you've been pushed to these outer limits, maybe beyond what a large portion of the population will experience. How do you balance that? Like, how do you still bring that as a value setter and as a way to create some understanding for your people, but not needing them to have had that same experience for it to have value? Are you tracking with that?
[00:39:01.190] - JR Litehiser
I think so. Yeah, because we don't all have the same lived experience doesn't mean that trauma isn't trauma, you know. So it might be Something I might think of as mundane, but to whomever it's occurring to, it's traumatic. And so, if you can bear that in mind and meet people where they are, then you can go from there to find a solution. But I'm trying not to diminish or not understand the trauma or trouble that people are having by minimalizing it, saying, well, you're not being shot at and you're not on fire. How bad can it be?
[00:39:32.450] - Brandon Reece
Get over it.
[00:39:33.150] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, right? That doesn't go over very well, I've learned recently. So, you got to meet them where they are, and then once you can get a baseline for what okay looks like, start looking for the solutions to get there.
[00:39:43.570] - Brandon Reece
Love it. I love it.
[00:39:44.710] - Chris Nordyke
Can we talk about family a little bit?
[00:39:46.300] - JR Litehiser
Sure.
[00:39:46.550] - Chris Nordyke
You've got family 2.0.
[00:39:47.900] - JR Litehiser
I do.
[00:39:48.400] - Chris Nordyke
Right. So you've been married now for 17 years?
[00:39:50.470] - JR Litehiser
17 years we've been together.
[00:39:51.910] - Chris Nordyke
High school sweetheart, which is kind of a cool story in and of itself.
[00:39:55.290] - JR Litehiser
It's even cooler. Let me tell you how we met. Long time ago, I was in a Boy Scout troop from the time I was 11 to the time I was 18 years old, and a couple of years after that, worked at Scout reservations. My wife also worked at a Scout reservation. Her father was my boss. Silly man. He hired— put daughters to work at a camp kitchen that has 1,200 boys per week trotting through the camp, let alone the 60 staff that are there, I'm what happens. So, but anyway, so we met a long time ago, a summer after our senior years at a Boy Scout reservation in Northern California.
[00:40:29.660] - Brandon Reece
Wow.
[00:40:30.340] - JR Litehiser
And she followed me to Gonzaga, and we had dated for a year, year and a half, and had broke up then and not seen each other for, for many years after, and but got in touch after my injury accident thanks to Mark Zoller. Zuckerberg, shout out to Meta and Facebook, because that's what we all use Facebook for, right?
[00:40:46.780] - Brandon Reece
That's right.
[00:40:47.560] - JR Litehiser
To voyeur our exes.
[00:40:48.630] - Brandon Reece
Yeah, that's right.
[00:40:49.680] - JR Litehiser
That's right. This one just stuck. And we have a beautiful, nearly 17-year-old daughter, 16 now. She got her license in May, and I've seen her like for 2 hours since then.
[00:41:01.340] - Brandon Reece
Natural progression.
[00:41:02.550] - JR Litehiser
Right. And pretty soon it's just going to be her and I. And in the years that we've been together, so I had I had a son from a previous relationship. She had a daughter and a son, and then we had a daughter. So there was 4. And then we had some strays, I like to say. We took in a niece and nephew for a period of time as well. So there was 6 of us at one point, 3 boys, 3 girls, mom, dad, 2 dogs, 2 cats. And yet it's been a crazy ride. I've never been married for 17 years before. We've got a lot of learning to do still, even as— because I think they say somewhere every 5 to 7 years, you're a different human being. The accumulation of the life experiences that you're having. I mean, messing with your noodle enough to make you a totally different person.
[00:41:38.590] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:41:38.990] - JR Litehiser
Well, we've been through 3 different versions of ourselves and we're still trying to find what makes us tick and work as a couple. And pretty soon we're going to be empty nesters and that's a little scary too. Yeah.
[00:41:49.420] - Brandon Reece
Big change. It changes everything.
[00:41:51.580] - JR Litehiser
But in all seriousness though, I don't know how she was there for a ginormous part of my recovery because the burn surgery and the hospitalization, it went on for years. You know, I had surgery last year. I had to have a scar revision. First time in 8 years I've had to have surgery, but I mean, it was a big deal. It involved like 3 separate procedures. It was horrible. But she has been a rock. She is as steadfast, loving, and loyal as you can get from a partner on this earth, I'm convinced. I struggle every day to live up to that, and I'm an asshole too. It's hard for me and it's hard on her, but I'm trying. And not to say she doesn't have her own peccadillos either, but I just think I'm worse. I don't know, harder to get along with, more of an acquired taste, whereas she is lovely and everybody can get along with her. Mm-hmm.
[00:42:36.320] - Chris Nordyke
What is the biggest thing that you've learned about being a husband and about marriage? You know, I mean, because I think a lot of business owners listening to this really, really, really struggle with bearing the burden of being responsible for payroll and a lot of other families, and also trying to provide for their family, right, and increase their wealth and their position, balancing all of that with being a husband, right, being a dad. Like, what would you say is the biggest thing you've learned along the way, been able to maybe How not to do it?
[00:43:05.000] - JR Litehiser
Like the propensity for self-employed or entrepreneurs to work way too much. And even when I was with them, I wasn't present. That was probably— if I had to have any regret, that would probably be one. Not being mindful of those relationships, or I don't want to say taken advantage of, but just not being mindful of them or being a good steward for them. Because there's the expression, what you pay attention to grows, right?
[00:43:28.710] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:43:28.860] - JR Litehiser
And the business has grown, bank accounts have grown, Their employee count is growing. That's all great. What about the— what do I have in the bank with my family that I can draw on? I've not spent a lot of time or attention there. I need to, you know. And so that's kind of a big shift that I'm working through even now and probably will for the rest of my life.
[00:43:47.580] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:43:47.900] - Brandon Reece
Would you say in the midst of that, like, I'm just trying to kind of think about how to put this question together. So recognizing that you're now on the other side of some of it, right?
[00:43:59.060] - JR Litehiser
Like you're starting to get some wins at home as far as like, I tell my people all the time, employees, family members, what have you, because I get laser-focused. And you had mentioned earlier, it made me think of an expression that I love called dickhead momentum buildup. Like, you get going in a direction, you've got your blinders on, all the blood slithers to the front of your brain, and you just can't stop. It happens to me all the time in, like, arguments too. Like, honey, damn it, I told you to get me half a dozen. Fuck, there's only 6. You know, you know you're wrong, but you can't stop. That's what— that's been my modus operandi for many years. I need to be hit in the head with a brick to get my attention or to change my focus, to know that there's something wrong.
[00:44:44.010] - Brandon Reece
An object in motion.
[00:44:45.310] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, stays in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. Absolutely right. Newton's first law. Yeah, so that was me. It was just the dickhead momentum motion though, you know, just straight ahead, full steam, get out of my way or I'm gonna run you over. Not great for, say, relationships or dealing with children.
[00:45:03.170] - Brandon Reece
Well, you know what I think is funny in the context of that? Like, I think the best part is, is how entertaining your self-deprivation is. But, and I know, dude, I know I can see it. We've already felt it in our conversations with you. You are very intentional. And the stuff that you're shifting in right now is not accidental. And it's not, I'd say, and literally, I don't know you that well. I'm just picking this up off you. I think some of it too is, you're like, this could get worse. I'm going to get proactive now so it doesn't.
[00:45:32.750] - Chris Nordyke
Absolutely.
[00:45:33.570] - Brandon Reece
Like, what— see, how do I phrase this? So you had this, the dickhead momentum. It got the business to 6+, right? You've got a clear vision for what tomorrow needs and where you want to go. And what I'm already hearing and seeing in you is some jettisoning of some of these old behaviors and habits. And so I think what I'd like to tap into, if we can, is you're not on the other side of it. It was not that long ago that you were living in that space, but you're also now seeing the positives about where you're spending your time, and you're doing it in the context of getting ready to take your company to EPW, call it 3 or 4.0.
[00:46:12.230] - JR Litehiser
Right.
[00:46:12.550] - Brandon Reece
In that gap, like, if you were doing it over again, what would you tell somebody? Like, hey, I was doing the dickhead momentum and it only got me here.
[00:46:21.040] - JR Litehiser
Right.
[00:46:21.510] - Brandon Reece
I now have fulfilling a much larger spectrum and vision for my business, and I'm trying to get home more and let leaders in my company be leaders. What would you tell yourself that was a year behind you in the dickhead momentum phase? I probably have used that word way too many times for one show.
[00:46:37.970] - Chris Nordyke
It's pretty hard to let go.
[00:46:40.000] - Brandon Reece
Joel, we may have to bloop some of those out.
[00:46:42.100] - Chris Nordyke
DMM there. Yeah.
[00:46:43.450] - JR Litehiser
Yeah. DMB, dickhead momentum buildup.
[00:46:46.340] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:46:47.210] - JR Litehiser
One, it's— I don't ever think I'll be done because as soon as I learn something new and get comfortable at it, guess what? Things are gonna fucking change.
[00:46:54.600] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:46:54.770] - JR Litehiser
And we're gonna have to readjust, pivot, or change. One of the things that I really appreciated and loved about my experience in law enforcement was the idea or expression of, you just gotta get comfortable being uncomfortable. And I know when I'm uncomfortable, I'm being challenged and I'm learning. So that's the right place to be. So if I can keep uncomfortable, if As long as I can keep learning, good, we'll need that. The second you get stagnant or you think you got stuff figured out, somebody's gonna come eat your lunch.
[00:47:20.130] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:47:20.560] - JR Litehiser
So, I try to be cognizant of that. This is a lifelong learning kind of thing. And for every phase or mile marker we hit for the business, we're gonna have to learn new skills to get us to the next mile marker. There's the expression, what's gotten you here isn't gonna get you there.
[00:47:37.070] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:47:37.330] - JR Litehiser
So, every so often we need to adjust. Well, I wouldn't have known to do that if I hadn't started reaching out Outside myself because, you know, I did well for a business for some time to get it to where it is. I ran out of good ideas. I don't know what else to do now. I need outside help. And so, we've started looking in our second coaching program for this company. We're looking at getting some training and coaching for some of our employees for the key roles that they're in. Just getting help, outside perspectives, opening yourself to other people's advice, feedback, or criticisms so that you could look at what to to improve or do better or get the company going in the direction it needs to.
[00:48:15.910] - Brandon Reece
Love that.
[00:48:16.390] - JR Litehiser
So you really gotta— in martial arts, they call it sweeping the floor, the way you deal with your ego. I don't know if you guys roll, but I was a collegiate wrestler, high school wrestler, collegiate wrestler, martial artist, and then with the city of Bellevue was the defensive tactics coordinator. So I trained the trainers to train the squads, their hand-to-hand, CQB, weapon retention, positional shooting, ground and pound. Good times. Love that stuff. But I also know doing this, you can't You can't underestimate anybody. You can't ever think you know it all. You've always got to be on your guard. You always have to be constantly learning and adjusting. Those sorts of lessons I've gotten from martial arts, you apply to your ego. You sweep the floor, get rid of what you think you know, get rid of how good you think you are. You're not. There is always better ways to improve, new things that you can learn, things that you can do better. You got to constantly sweep the floor.
[00:49:07.220] - Brandon Reece
Mm-hmm.
[00:49:07.530] - JR Litehiser
Whenever you let your accolades, your accomplishments, and all that stuff pile up on the floor, I think that leads to complacency, and that's when the people come and eat your lunch. So I'm constantly sweeping the floor, trying to.
[00:49:20.750] - Brandon Reece
That's good, man. That's good.
[00:49:22.630] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah. Well, I think as we, as we move to wrap up—
[00:49:26.010] - JR Litehiser
Already? Well, I could do this 2 more hours.
[00:49:28.210] - Brandon Reece
Let's go.
[00:49:28.870] - Chris Nordyke
I mean, I mean, shit, we got more questions where those came from. No, but I'm just thinking a lot of the people in the audience, I mean, this has been such a fun conversation. They've learned so many new terms to apply to their business.
[00:49:38.550] - Brandon Reece
Sorry.
[00:49:39.030] - Chris Nordyke
And, uh, their leadership behaviors. This is great. But talk to us about like other— obviously you've talked about hiring coaches and so forth. That tells me you've always sort of carried a learning mindset. You've always been somebody that's looking for new information, right? What kinds of books have you found most transformative or podcasts or what are some of those things for you?
[00:49:56.850] - JR Litehiser
Oh my gosh. One, I'm not a big reader. I got ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia. So I'm learning disabled like squared, cubed. Anyway, Reading's not a strong suit, but I do try to do it as a discipline because it slows the mind. It's just that my mind goes 17 different directions while I'm supposed to be focused on a page. I'd get through a chapter and not know what I just read. So I do a lot of books on tape, a lot of podcasts. Sometimes I even do like a child where I listen to the book on tape and I read the actual book at the same time.
[00:50:26.140] - Chris Nordyke
Sure.
[00:50:26.630] - JR Litehiser
That's a new habit. Jury's out on how well it's doing. This started earlier on with finances for me. Dave Ramsey, Ramsey, because when I got out of the hospital, I had my construction company, my home, 2 investment properties, and a bunch of bills and no income anymore and was careening towards bankruptcy. So, you know, money freaked me out and I wasn't very good with it and I didn't have any coming in. So I wanted to learn about that.
[00:50:51.470] - Brandon Reece
Hmm.
[00:50:51.600] - JR Litehiser
So I got into Dave Ramsey some and then went down that rabbit hole to all sorts of other, not just money coaches, business coaches. Been listening to business podcasts. Now I'm big in economy nationally, globally. Everything that's going on with our administration locally in our community, nationally with our government, and on the world stage, how it all affects small business.
[00:51:13.140] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah.
[00:51:13.450] - JR Litehiser
Because it all affects small business.
[00:51:14.890] - Brandon Reece
Yeah.
[00:51:15.290] - JR Litehiser
We're just an itty-bitty piece of a much larger ecosystem, and we gotta try and navigate as well as we can through that. So, I try to take in as much stuff that is relevant to leadership, money, and business as possible. And so, I cycle through podcasts, yours now recently, thank you very much. I've got like 280 more to go.
[00:51:34.290] - Brandon Reece
No problem.
[00:51:35.090] - JR Litehiser
I'm like 16 deep. But yeah, places like that, you know, just try to find. And if I can't get it from a person, I turn to the books and podcasts and then, yeah.
[00:51:44.930] - Chris Nordyke
Yeah, sure.
[00:51:45.730] - Brandon Reece
You're like a really community-minded individual though. Like even we were talking downstairs just about how you built the business and are building the business. Like, is a lot of that there too? Like just the sharing ideas, surrounding yourself with people, is it more of a community play for you or not so much?
[00:52:03.670] - Chris Nordyke
Talking with contractors?
[00:52:05.390] - JR Litehiser
I don't know yet. I'm figuring it out still. I mean, it was, I want it to be, but that's now the job for my team to have. And I'm out making other and different relationships. I want to get involved with local area union halls. I like to get involved with at-risk youth programs. I like to be involved with community outreach stuff. I think that the way that you could judge any society is how it takes care of the least of us. And I want to be a part of the people that takes care of the least of us to make for a good showing of our society as a whole. And so, that's kind of my drive in terms of being involved because if you were to rely on other people to do it, our government, for instance, yeah, it's not getting done. So, how can we be the change you want to see in the world, so to speak?
[00:52:50.390] - Chris Nordyke
It comes back to that early engagement with the Jesuits in the Catholic Church. That's neat. That's really cool.
[00:52:55.800] - JR Litehiser
Yeah. My wife often She tells me, I mean, she remembers me again, like JR 1.0 when we were kids. I was a happy-go-lucky, really mellow, laid-back guy. And then we were apart for many years and something happened. I became this super aggro, Type A aggressive personality, totally antithetical to how I was when I was a kid. And so she's often said, but you were so happy then and you're so stressed now. And so I'm trying to recapture all of those things I used to do when I was a kid that make me happy.
[00:53:24.510] - Brandon Reece
I actually relate to that huge. So I'm 50, and I vibe with that perspective probably the most of anything that you've said in the sense of I feel a returning. Yeah, I was a certain way when I was really young. Of course, there was still stuff, life story that had an effect on that. And then I feel like I became a really aggressive, angry individual for a long time. And it's funny, it's like Chris and I have told this story a million times. He was part of that equation. Obviously, my wife of 30 years is a major part of that equation. But, but there is like this almost a returning back to some of those things that just kind of natively made me me.
[00:54:03.660] - JR Litehiser
Yeah.
[00:54:04.000] - Brandon Reece
Before all the life shit kind of starts to unfold. And it's funny how like, I felt myself like kicking and screaming as things were happening to kind of almost force me to let go of some of the anger, blah, blah, just getting better results, wanting to have an actual relationship with my kids, you know, shit like that. But there's like this. Now I'm kind of returning back and I'm like, I don't really want to be like— I'm not even 100% how I became the angry guy.
[00:54:31.260] - JR Litehiser
Yeah, I am not a big fan of opposable thumbs in the frontal lobe because I think we as a species, humans that is, make shit way harder than it has to be. You know, show up, work hard, don't be a dick. It's really that fucking—
[00:54:45.550] - Brandon Reece
Dude, turn that into a t-shirt. That's really—
[00:54:49.820] - JR Litehiser
it's that simple. Why do we get so inundated with the minutia and think that we're going to think our way out of this problem that's so complex? It's not. It's really not.
[00:55:00.960] - Brandon Reece
Wait, what is it again? Show up, work hard, don't be a dick.
[00:55:04.010] - JR Litehiser
Yeah.
[00:55:04.810] - Chris Nordyke
Oh, man.
[00:55:05.130] - Brandon Reece
Well, there you go.
[00:55:05.950] - Chris Nordyke
There's so many— I've learned so many valuable, practical aphorisms for life.
[00:55:10.340] - Brandon Reece
That's right.
[00:55:11.000] - Chris Nordyke
In this conversation. I love it.
[00:55:13.150] - Brandon Reece
That's right.
[00:55:14.740] - JR Litehiser
Next failed career is going to be as a Hallmark card writer.
[00:55:19.860] - Brandon Reece
They're going to be a little grittier than normal, but all right, man, listen, we're on the finishing track here. So here's what I'm super interested in hearing. And again, here, only share what you're comfortable with. Like, we understand that, like, you too, just like anybody else, house some competitors. You probably don't want to put all the cards on the table, but what— so let's call it the PNW 4.0. You've got a real clear vision of where you're Just kind of outline what you're comfortable with and the one thing that you think is going to be the biggest challenge for you personally in order to be able to facilitate and live out this dream that you have for the business.
[00:55:54.900] - JR Litehiser
All right. Well, insofar as where we want to go in the direction that we're growing to is I really see us as a multi-jurisdictional, God willing, cross-country entity, ECS 4.0, if you will, because I want every ECS to be regionally specific because Because every market is different. So if we open up in Boise, that's Treasure Valley ECS. If we open up in Colorado, Mile High ECS. California, Golden State ECS. So something, you know, like Applebee's does with the hometown jerseys in their restaurants or something, even though it's a national chain.
[00:56:23.310] - Chris Nordyke
National chain.
[00:56:24.000] - JR Litehiser
We wanted to focus specifically on the individual markets because there are differences between the West Coast, the Northwest, the Midwest, the Southeast, the Northeast. I mean, we deal with different concrete, different materials, different obstacles. So each one has to have its own flavor, but the overarching thing that ties them together is the service and education orientation. That's my goal or dream for ECS inside of the next decade is we're a nationwide brand. That's the hope. That's a lofty aspiration. My biggest challenge, I think, is gonna be getting out of my own way and letting my team rock.
[00:56:58.140] - Brandon Reece
Love it. I love it, man. It's been really a real pleasure. It's been great.
[00:57:03.030] - JR Litehiser
Awesome. Well, I appreciate it. In fact, if you guys want to either have me back when And we're now an 8-figure company in 4 locations, or we're down in flames. And I'll tell you what happened. Either way, it's gonna be a good story.
[00:57:13.820] - Chris Nordyke
Either way, it's gonna be a good story.
[00:57:14.280] - Brandon Reece
Either way, it's a hot story. Yeah, that's right.
[00:57:16.340] - JR Litehiser
I would love to come back and share if you think it would be a help to your audience.
[00:57:19.580] - Brandon Reece
Absolutely, dude. It's been super fun. Really respect how you showed up.
[00:57:23.500] - JR Litehiser
Thank you.
[00:57:24.380] - Brandon Reece
Um, I think the transparency is what matters. I think people that listen to the show are really not interested in hearing stories of people that are just nothing but successes and all the boxes of life are being checked because none of us believe it because it's just not real.
[00:57:37.100] - JR Litehiser
I am proud to admit I am a professional failure. I fail every day.
[00:57:41.490] - Brandon Reece
I love the fail forward. Yeah, fail forward. That's my favorite. It's like, when in doubt, if you're failing forward, we're in good shape.
[00:57:48.390] - JR Litehiser
Absolutely.
[00:57:48.590] - Brandon Reece
I love it. Well, thanks, my friend. We appreciate you being on. It was awesome.
[00:57:51.870] - JR Litehiser
My pleasure. Thank you, guys.
[00:57:53.390] - Brandon Reece
All right, man. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart Boots.
[00:58:01.030] - Chris Nordyke
And if you're enjoying the show, if you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe. Write us a review or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.